|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 7, 2021 23:09:39 GMT -5
This "man-made" abomination is indeed big, but I'm looking for natural born species. Understood, the topic title does not specify.  I wonder how ligers would be like if a wild lion breeds with a wild tiger. Both have cross paths before in the past in India. |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 0:54:55 GMT -5
This "man-made" abomination is indeed big, but I'm looking for natural born species. Understood, the topic title does not specify. I wonder how ligers would be like if a wild lion breeds with a wild tiger. Both have cross paths before in the past in India. I don't wonder about them at all. There is no place for them in the natural world. It's like Jeff Goldblum as Dr. Malcolm said, "They were so concerned about if they could, they didn't think about if they should." There is absolutely no reason or purpose for breeding Ligers or Tigons. I have no interest in them. |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 1:28:25 GMT -5
BIGGEST CAT SPECIES EVER   |
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 8, 2021 3:06:12 GMT -5
The largest Machairodus has 27kgs more than the largest smilodon populator from the looks of it.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 3:07:29 GMT -5
www.deviantart.com/hodarinundu/art/Pleistocene-Bornean-Tiger-878597667 A colossal Bornean tiger over its prey, a small rhinoceros. Fossil remains indicate the tiger existed in Borneo in prehistoric times. This drawing is based on a fossil mandible with overwhelming dimensions; the live animal has been estimated at around 480 kg, making it one of the largest cats of all times. It would've lived in a time in which Borneo was still connected to the mainland, which makes sense considering the huge tiger specimens found elsewhere in Asia. As Borneo became isolated, the tigers seemingly shrank as suggested by more recent remains, more similar in size to modern day tigers. It seems the giant tiger would've been similar to today's Sumatran tiger, only huge. 
|
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 8, 2021 3:11:11 GMT -5
/\ Is that tiger above the same subspecies as the Ngadong tiger?
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 3:19:33 GMT -5
/\ Is that tiger above the same subspecies as the Ngadong tiger? No. Thus far, we here at the Domain have only this from Deviant Art - no scientific reports. 480 kilograms is equal to 1,058.22 pounds. This Pleistocene Bornean tiger might be a hoax.  |
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 8, 2021 8:12:19 GMT -5
/\ Is that tiger above the same subspecies as the Ngadong tiger? No. Thus far, we here at the Domain have only this from Deviant Art - no scientific reports. 480 kilograms is equal to 1,058.22 pounds. This Pleistocene Bornean tiger might be a hoax. So it is not scientifically verified then? |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 14:15:57 GMT -5
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08912963.2019.1625348 The tiger (Panthera tigris) has an archaic past on the Malay Archipelago. Despite such, the tiger is poorly recorded on Borneo, with just a single partial metacarpal being previously reported. This study presents the first mandibular remains and just the second fossil tiger from Borneo. The specimen is dated to MIS 2. It is morphologically most like southern subspecies of tiger but much larger than any extant form. The fossil record of the Bornean tiger indicates the region maintained a population of tigers throughout at least MIS 2 to some portion of MIS 1. A mixture of ecological and anthropological factors is likely the cause of the disappearance of the Bornean tiger.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 14:22:49 GMT -5
wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-bornean-tiger-fact-or-fiction The Bornean Tiger: Fact or Fiction? by tigerluver More to be seen on-site, but here is the conclusion: Thus, it can be safely said that the tiger existed on the land that is now Borneo in at least the final parts of the Late Pleistocene. Thus, this article sits in the Pleistocene Predators section. What is still up for debate is whether the tiger survived on Borneo once the region became a true island after the rise of sea levels at the turn of the Pleistocene-Holocene. Based on the dramatic downsizing of the tiger as depicted by the striking difference in size between SFC-1345 and Niah W/E1, extinction pressures such a decreased prey biomass, human pressures, and island isolation had probably begun exerting their effects by the end of Late Pleistocene (Sherani 2019). These pressures may have pushed the tiger beyond the edge of extinction by the time the Holocene and associated records of human history came along. Nonetheless, perhaps the stories and collectibles of the locals of Borneo are genuine and the Bornean tiger became the cryptic ghost that it is now much later than the fossil record shows. Such speculation leads the mind to theorize, and maybe even hope, that Meijard's theory of an undetected population of Bornean tigers that may still prowl what is left of the island's jungles holds true. Whatever may be the case, the record of the tiger on Borneo is a paradigm for the diversity and gigantism of the Pleistocene and the loss and mystery of the Holocene.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 8, 2021 16:35:27 GMT -5
The Two Biggest of the Big Cats:  |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 9, 2021 4:07:40 GMT -5
The big Three (Smilodon Populator; Panthera fossilis; Machairodus lahayishupup)  Here is another good comparison of three of the biggest big cats. |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 9, 2021 5:25:02 GMT -5
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/05/210503113933.htm The newly identified cat (Machairodus lahayishupup ) weighed an average of around 600 or so pounds and could have managed to kill prey weighing up to 6,000 pounds, the scientists estimate, suggesting that their findings provide evidence for another giant cat, one of the largest in Earth history. *We have no conformation on the size of the Bornean tiger. 
|
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 1, 2021 6:06:59 GMT -5
The only tiger than can average 300kgs would probably be the Ngadong tiger. Siberians weighing 300kgs on average is pure exaggeration.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jul 1, 2021 6:30:42 GMT -5
The only tiger than can average 300kgs would probably be the Ngadong tiger. Siberians weighing 300kgs on average is pure exaggeration. I have doubts that even the notorious Ngandong Tiger was that heavy on average. |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jul 1, 2021 8:05:50 GMT -5
The only tiger than can average 300kgs would probably be the Ngadong tiger. Siberians weighing 300kgs on average is pure exaggeration. From "Saber-Toothed Cat" in our face-off section; Reply #147, "According to most reliable sources Smilodon populator reached an average weight of ~660lbs (300kg) based on the fossils being found so far." *So, ( probably ) the biggest cat, Smilodon populator, averaged roughly 300 kg ( 660 pounds ). *I can locate no estimate for the average Ngandong Tiger, but it should be less than 300 kg. |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Aug 17, 2021 4:59:02 GMT -5
 Largest cats of the Pleistocene (American lion was scaled to 125 cms in the comparison ; wrote 120 cm by mistake, Mosbach lion is slightly over-sized; 380 kg or so would be more likely) Does the Mosbach lion equal with Smilodon populaor as our biggest big cat? |
|
|
|
Post by nocapakabl on Sept 15, 2021 2:10:43 GMT -5
Largest cats of the Pleistocene (American lion was scaled to 125 cms in the comparison ; wrote 120 cm by mistake, Mosbach lion is slightly over-sized; 380 kg or so would be more likely) Does the Mosbach lion equal with Smilodon populaor as our biggest big cat? Hello brobear, i recalled that this forum existed due to a mention on another place and i decided to log in. Hopefully I'll be more active now. To answer your question; There exist 3 contenders for the "largest big cat ever"; the newly discovered Machairodus, panthera fossilis (i.e mosbach lion) and the smilodon populator. We currently have two 400kg specimens from both sides; the largest specimen in christiansen (2005)s sample was estimated at 405kg while a very newly discovered skull from 2018 had a estimated size range off 370 to 430kg; a mean of 407.5kg. For the panthera fossilis, we have 2 specimens reaching 400kg also; The largest humeri coming from za hajovnou measures anywhere from 441 to 455mm (exact value unknown) in length; 120mm in articular width and 43-45mm in diaphysis/shaft width; a reliable estimate of this specimens weight would be around 397kg. We also have another skull from france; it was measured at about 484mm in length and assuming a CBL off around 430mm for my calculations, using Christiansen's sample of 2 lions, 2 tigers and 1 jaguar for this estimate we'd get a mean weight of 404kg using the lions and tigers and 403kg including the jaguar into the sample (wether or not scaling this skull with a jaguar is a good idea you can decide). So overall, I'd say they're pretty evenly matched all around in terms of body mass but smilodon populator was built much more robust than any extjnct or extant panthera cat, so it'd almost certianly be the stronger one of the two. |
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 15, 2021 3:02:25 GMT -5
What about the Ngadong tiger? It is one of the biggest extinct cats too. I wonder how it compares with the smilodon populator.
|
|
|
|
Post by nocapakabl on Sept 15, 2021 4:10:43 GMT -5
What about the Ngadong tiger? It is one of the biggest extinct cats too. I wonder how it compares with the smilodon populator. Yes, definitely. Right now, we don't have alot but referring back to the popular 480mm femur, these are the set of estimates available, applying christiansen & harris' 2005 equations: Ngandong femur: FL 480mm = 298.25kg (or 393.85kg using the 1999 equations) FDAW 110mm = 406.16kg FDLM 42.8mm = 364.67kg Mean: 356.36kg or 388.23kg According to theundertaker45, shaft width is generally the best measurement to estimate a weight from, and in that case we'd have a 370kg estimate for this tiger (FDLM is the shaft/diaphysis width) imgur.com/XFCRBBWPictured - a average sized bengal tigers femur compared to this giant (credited to WildFact, by guategojira) From the original paper describing the bone: i.imgur.com/HGuRkBw.pngLastly, here's a comparison between this 480mm femur and the newly discovered Machairodus humeri. i.imgur.com/HGuRkBw.png |
|
