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Post by brobear on Jun 2, 2021 7:45:10 GMT -5
Average mature Bengal tiger - 463 pounds.
Average mature Bengal tigress - 304.2 pounds.
Average mature male Yellowstone grizzly (5 years+) - 425.5 pounds.
Average mature female Yellowstone grizzly (5 years+) - 295.4 pounds.
Average fully grown male Yellowstone grizzly (9 years+) - 470 pounds.
Average fully grown female Yellowstone grizzly (7 years+) - 304.08 pounds.
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Post by brobear on Jun 2, 2021 8:11:11 GMT -5
I have stated this throughout the Domain from time to time. I consider the tiger to be the greatest single full-time predator on terrestrial Earth - the greatest single ( land-based ) predator. Yes, like ALL cats, the tiger is an ambush predator. But, any beast who will ambush a muscular, powerful, bovine anywhere from four to five times his own weight cannot be seriously called a coward.
The Yellowstone grizzly. Even though, among the brown bears, the grizzly has the reputation of being the epitome of being a "badass bear", he is actually ( IMO ) the average among the brown bears of the world - Ursus arctos.
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Post by brobear on Jun 2, 2021 8:23:19 GMT -5
Bengal Tiger - Inland Grizzly Bear
Tiger vs Grizzly |
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 2, 2021 8:56:49 GMT -5
The Yellowstone grizzly is smaller than the Ussuri brown bear but it is still heavier and stronger than the tiger.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 2, 2021 10:05:44 GMT -5
Weight parity fight here, so lets take a look at the morphological studies that we have:
Grappling ability-PC2-value, the lower the score the better:
Brown Bear: -7.045
Lion: -0.531 (the tiger was not included in this study, but its value should not be much different than a lion)
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/26724/thread
Robusticity study-ML-diameters of all four major limb bones:
Brown Bear - 40.97%
Tiger - 34.35%
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/26686/thread
Bite force, BFQ at the canine tips:
Tiger - 130.4 at the canine tips
Brown Bear - 99.3 at the canine tips
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/26903/thread
Also, brown bears have larger scapula than tigers, better developed deltoid crest, more powerful biceps muscles, more robust humeri, and better developed collarbones:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/27615/thread
So the grizzly bear is a better grappler, more robust limbs, more stamina, longer claws, more durable, plantigrade, and basically all the morphological advantages. The tiger has speed, agility, power, and bite force on its side. On the captive accounts that we have, its brown bears 4, Bengal tigers 0.
So, all this makes me believe the Yellowstone grizzly bear would win 6/7 out of 10 times.
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Post by brobear on Jun 2, 2021 10:24:58 GMT -5
Yes, as King Kodiak said, this is pretty-much a weight-parity face-off. This means that the less robust tiger will have the advantages of length and bipedal height. The tiger has the advantage of agility. While a brown bear is far more agile than his cumbersome appearance would suggest, a cat is a contortionist. The tiger has a slight advantage in speed, longer canine teeth, and a more powerful bite force. However, the bite force advantage is often over-rated. Both of these animals have a strong bite. The bear will have the advantage of overall physical strength, but not to any overwhelming degree.
I will agree with King Kodiak's assessment of 6 or 7 out of 10 for the grizzly due mostly to his superior durability.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 2, 2021 10:34:19 GMT -5
The most important factor in a head on fight is weight and size, but here the bear does not have the advantage. So IMO, the next most important advantages are grappling ability and raw strength. (Remember that tigers have more power while bears have more strength, these are different items)
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/818/power-strength-stamina-endurance
Also, i just added plantigrade for the bear above, how could i forgotten? Its gives the bear more striking force, balance, and a fighting advantage. I added power to the tiger:
Power is a combination of force and speed:
Reply #9:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/22175/thread
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Post by brobear on Jun 3, 2021 0:15:18 GMT -5
Yellowstone grizzly. I know from several books I've read concerning the historical grizzly, where all were in agreement, The Mexican grizzly and the barren ground grizzly are smaller than the Rocky Mountain grizzlies ( such as the Yellowstone bears ). The grizzlies of the Great Plains, California, and coastal regions were bigger. Also, among the brown bears of Eurasia, there are numerous smaller subspecies and numerous larger subspecies. What this means; the Yellowstone grizzly is a typical and pretty-much average brown bear. The Amur tiger and the Bengal tiger are often the subjects of debate as to the largest of living tiger subspecies.  |
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jun 3, 2021 4:00:15 GMT -5
Revised version with identical postures and models in better quality:  |
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jun 3, 2021 4:10:56 GMT -5
I'll say this much; in a best vs best stipulation the bear would have some weight advantage on the tiger as the biggest interior males in good condition may weigh around 350kg whereas Bengal tigers usually max. out in the high 200kg region taking scientific records only into account. I know that there once existed a 500kg grizzly in Yellowstone NP but it was an obese individual that feasted on the garbage dumpsters available in the park. I'd give a slight edge to the bear at weight parity and thus every kg in favour of the bear increases the chance of victory imo. There is direct confirmation by Dr. Jhala on a male Bengal tiger tipping the scales at 285kg (via personal communication); compare that to a 350kg male grizzly from Alberta caught by Gordon Stenhouse and you'll end up with a weight advantage of roughly 65kg; definitely enough to secure a solid victory most of the time in my eyes.
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Post by brobear on Jun 3, 2021 6:05:43 GMT -5
Reply #9 - Agreed. As Shadow pointed out in the "Amur Tiger vs Ussuri Brown Bear" topic, some tigers are bigger than others and some bears smaller than others. So, if Bengal tigers and Yellowstone grizzlies were suddenly tossed into the same environment, some smaller adult male grizzlies could possibly find themselves facing tigers heavier than themselves. But not often. The typical grizzly will have the advantage over the typical Bengal tiger. *Comparison picture ( Reply #8 ). The tiger might even appear to be the bigger of the two until they both turn to face the camera. |
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 3, 2021 6:40:58 GMT -5
/\ Yeah the bear has the wider chest girth.
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Post by brobear on Jun 3, 2021 7:06:00 GMT -5
The Brown Bears of the Worldfrom left to right: Kodiak Brown Bear - Coastal Grizzly Bear - Kamchatka Brown Bear - Ussuri Brown Bear - Eurasian Brown Bear - Inland Grizzly Bear  The Yellowstone grizzly is represented by the smallest brown bear pictured and is only slightly heavier than the heaviest living tiger subspecies ( on average ). Smaller than the Yellowstone grizzly would be the Himalayan brown bear, Gobi bear, Syrian Brown Bear, Saylyugem bear, Tibetan brown bear, and the barren ground grizzly. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 3, 2021 8:33:35 GMT -5
Reply #8 - Shoulder height: 114cm ( 44.88 inches ) and 117cm ( 46.06 inches ). However, considering the grizzly's shoulder hump of muscles, skeletally, the tiger might be taller. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 3, 2021 8:40:06 GMT -5
Reply #8 - Shoulder height: 114cm ( 44.88 inches ) and 117cm ( 46.06 inches ). However, considering the grizzly's shoulder hump of muscles, skeletally, the tiger might be taller. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 3, 2021 9:07:43 GMT -5
Reply #8 - Shoulder height: 114cm ( 44.88 inches ) and 117cm ( 46.06 inches ). However, considering the grizzly's shoulder hump of muscles, skeletally, the tiger might be taller. True. The Bengal tiger has ( on average ) got the Yellowstone grizzly beat in Head-and-body length, bipedal height, and possibly shoulder height when dismissing the bear's shoulder hump. Nevertheless, the grizzly's girth gives him some weight advantage. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 5, 2021 17:57:52 GMT -5
brobearCould you tell the weight of those in kilograms? Its hard for me to understand in pounds as kg in used here.
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Post by brobear on Jun 5, 2021 18:22:51 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 5, 2021 18:25:36 GMT -5
The bear is going to take down the tiger 7-8 out of 10 but if the bear has 200 poind advantage so the bear woukd win 9 out of 10. My thoughts. |
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Post by brobear on Jun 14, 2021 4:54:24 GMT -5
I said earlier, "I will agree with King Kodiak's assessment of 6 or 7 out of 10 for the grizzly due mostly to his superior durability."
When I look at this same topic, lion or tiger fighting against a grizzly at weight-parity, and this match-up is basically a weight-parity contest, I went and looked at that which some of the more respected big cat enthusiasts think. Most commonly, it is just the reverse of my answer - 6 or 7 out of 10 for the big cat.
In a weight-parity face-off, grizzly vs lion or tiger, any knowledgeable poster could write down a long list of advantages for any of the "big Three."
Now, I realize that a tiger never ( according to our data ) ambushes a bear his own size or bigger. However, if a weight-parity face-off happens to be ( in reality ) a 50/50 long-lasting and bloody fight where one will be killed outright and the other might live to see another sunrise, then it stands to reason that each will take precautions to avoid the other. Your thoughts...
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