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Post by Montezuma on Aug 6, 2022 0:04:03 GMT -5
Since the research on Brown bears intereaction with Amur tigers, these points remain as solid as tungusten.
1#. Brown bears are generally zero percent in tiger's diet. (The Siberian Tiger Project: Diet table)
2#. If preyed, thosebears are always young and subadults, and very rarely female adults. (Ivan Seryodkin, N.A. Baikov)
3#. Tigers generally avoid brown bears and hestiate to attack them. (Alexander Batalov, N.A. Baikov)
4#. Male brown bears are not afraid of tigers. (Grigory Linkov)
5#. Brown bears can displace tigers from their kills including adult males and invariably dominate such disputes. (Miquelle, Tkachenko)
6#. A male brown bear can generally defeat a male male tiger in a fight. (Mikhail Krechmar)
7#. A tiger always chooses a bear about 100 pound smaller than himself. (BART SCHLEYER)
8#. If a tiger attacks by ambush, the tiger wins but if the ambush fails so the bear would surely conquer the tiger. (MIKHAILOVICH SHIROKOGOROV)
9#. Brown bear predation on tigers is very but becomes intense in harsh winters. (Gorokhov)
10#. No case of adult male brown bear killed by tiger is known to biologists. (Miquelle, Amurtiger centre)
11#. Female brown bear is more stronger than tigeress. (Alex Kulikov)
12#. Apart from human, brown bears have no natural enemies. (N.A. Baikov)
13#. Brown bears reap great benefit from tiger's winter kills. (Dale Miquelle)
14#. Brown bears are stronger and more enduring than the tigers. (Sysoev)
15#. Brown bears are the real master of the taiga as they are not afraid if tigers and can beat them. Grigory linkov, Sysoev)
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Post by brobear on Aug 6, 2022 6:29:47 GMT -5
From Negans94 at WildFact... According to the Amur Tiger Center, adult healthy males are not weighed and their average weight is unknown. They weigh only conflict (problem) tigers, whose average weight is 180-190 kg. Question: Recently, the number of Amur tigers has grown, and even large males have been captured by camera traps. Can it say that currently the average weight of a wild Amur tiger can reach more than 190 kg? Amur Tiger Center: Indeed, the population of the Amur tiger is growing and more and more often predators fall into the lenses of camera traps (especially when people know where to set these traps). Large males are also found, especially in the north of the area, in the Khabarovsk Territory, but it would be incorrect to say that the average weight is growing. Firstly, it is not quite correct to make conclusions about weight only from photos. Yes, it is possible to assume something, but these are just assumptions and such observations do not matter for science. Tigers will not be caught and weighed specially — the risk of injuring the animal and making it unfit for life in the wild is too great. It remains to work only with those individuals that fall into the hands of scientists — most often the so-called conflict(problem) tigers. Secondly, it should be understood that the average weight is a very broad concept. As in a well-known joke: "The average salary in Russia is when 1 person receives 2 million, and 100 others receive 8,000 rubles. Then, on average, they all receive 27,000 rubles." So with the average weight, which is 180-190 kg. About the study Slaght et al 2005. Question: In 2005, a group of zoologists concluded that the problem-free wild Amur tigers weigh an average of 176.4 kg and the same assessment in captive Amur tigers. So, as far as I know from you, problem tigers weigh 180-190kg on average. I have 2 questions for you about this. What is the estimate of the average weight of captive Amur tigers? What can you say about the statistics from this document, where the average weight of Amur tigers is 176.4 kg? Amur Tiger Center: Yes, we have seen this work. A good attempt, but in our opinion there is not enough information to draw unambiguous conclusions. We understand that people love accurate and beautiful numbers. But it is not always possible to provide it. Let's reason and discuss. There are too many factors to compare and there is not a sufficient sample for all of them. At what age did the tiger enter the rehabilitation center? In what condition? In which region (the more northerly the area, the larger the tigers look, even if judged at least by camera traps). It is also obvious that at the time of admission to rehabilitation, when the tiger is the problem one, the weight will be one, and after some time, as he grows and recovers, the weight will be completely different. All this must be taken into account. On the reliability of the historical large weights of the Amur tigers. Amur Tiger Center: There is always potential. Unfortunately, there is no way to verify the reliability of these data. It's just worth keeping them in mind and taking them into account. They also reported at what age the prime of life begins. Question: Do tigers become full-fledged adults at the age of 48 months (4 years)? Amur Tiger Center: They leave their mother at one age, the prime of their powers comes at another age. Question: And at what age does it come, if you know? wildfact.com/forum/topic-amur-tigers?pid=174125#pid174125 (903) *Note: I did not copy that which is written in Russian. This post makes good sense to me. These numbers given as "average weights" cannot be carved in stone. Everything said here concerning the legitimacy of finding the average weight of tigers also holds true for bears (IMO).
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Post by brobear on Aug 7, 2022 6:52:41 GMT -5
GrizzlyClaws: There are already some 270 kg wild male Amur tigers in China. The upper limit for the modern big cats is around 300 kg with adequate condition, and 20 years ago the wild Amur tigers were starving, hence even a 200 kg wild male was hard to be spotted within their sight. *Note: So, the normal upper limit for a lion or a tiger is roughly 300kg or 660 pounds. The normal upper limit for a brown bear (coastal) is roughly 655kg or 1400 pounds. *So, if we had one 660-pound lion and one 660-pound tiger, together they would weight 1,320-pounds. Just 80-pounds short of one big brownie.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 9:51:04 GMT -5
The Ussuri brown bear in the taiga forest of the Far East, the Siberian tiger, the king of beasts, is the soul of the dead under its claws 02/04/2022 HKT inf.news/en/animal/e2b5e1e47b47e34e9df3f8152852c5d8.html The vast northern coniferous forest showed dense green spreads to the horizon. In Canada, it is called the "Northern Forest", named after the Greek "God of the North Wind"; in Russia, it is called the "Taiga", although the names are different, but they all refer to the same kind of place . In the taiga, broad-leaved forest and deciduous forest in the far southeastern region of Russia, there lives a species unique to the forest ecosystem - "Amur tiger", also known as "Siberian tiger" or "Amur tiger". There are two kinds of bears living in the habitat at the same time, namely the Ussuri brown bear and the Asiatic black bear. Because the three species share a common habitat, tigers and bears come into contact with each other, forming a complex relationship between the species.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 9:53:10 GMT -5
The Ussuri brown bear in the taiga forest of the Far East continued.... Before the Amur Tiger Project began in 1992, researchers had not specifically studied the relationship between Amur tigers and brown bears and Asiatic black bears. Phased and interrogative data on this issue were previously collected by different authors in Primorye and Khabarovsk Krai, but these data do not fully describe the relationship and interaction between brown bears, black bears and tigers . Due to the application of radio telemetry and satellite tracking methods as well as traditional methods of studying predators, comprehensive research has been carried out in and around the Sikhote-Alin Biosphere Reserve, including tracking tigers, brown bears and Asiatic black bears. Analysis of the obtained results and discussion of them using previously published information allows us to explore this topic in more detail.
In many previous articles and scientific research documents, the relationship between the three was viewed from the perspective of the tiger, and the bear often appeared as a supporting role of the tiger. This article is changed to take a look at the relationship between the three from the perspective of a bear this time, as well as many views that are often circulating on the Internet. The content quoted in this article comes from scientific research papers, and its authenticity and reliability are by no means comparable to social account tweets, media web articles, cool articles, chat screenshots, and pinyin readings that a group worships. This article will focus on answering the following questions: 1. Can bears kill tigers? 2. Does the bear have the initiative in the relationship between the bear and the tiger? 3. Will brown bears chase tigers over long distances? 4. Is the tiger in the bear's recipe? 5. Can a tiger kill a hibernating adult male brown bear?
The issues listed above have been rumoured and misled by certain groups for a long time, so what is the truth of the facts? Below we answer each question one by one.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 9:54:35 GMT -5
1. Can bears kill tigers? Black bears killing tigers have never been reported, black bears may eat dead tiger carcasses. Scientific research papers only record that brown bears have the ability to kill tigers. In the 2010 scientific research paper "Basic Types of Brown Bear Interspecies Relationships in the Sikhote-Alin Region": "Mammals are often hunted by brown bears. This predator can prey on any animal within its range, even if It's a tiger." This is the conclusion given by the paper, and it is by no means something that a social account can simply tweet about. The paper also includes a tiger skeleton that was eaten by a brown bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:01:21 GMT -5
1. Can bears kill tigers? continued... In the 2005 paper Amur tiger engineering monograph "Chapter 19: The relationship between Amur tigers and brown bears and black bears", the 2006 paper "The brown bear of Sikhote-Alin: ecology, behavior, conservation and economic utilization", 2017 paper " The Interspecies Relationship between Amur Tigers, Brown Bears, and Asiatic Black Bears” both pointed out: Tigers as a Feeding Object of Bears”. There are 12 cases of brown bears killing tigers, 6 of which were adult tigers. 4 cases of cubs, the other 2 cases did not account for their age." The ability of brown bears to kill tigers is well documented and supported by concrete examples. There is no doubt about the affirmative answer. Original text: "In the case of relatively small tiger populations, the death of some individuals can significantly affect population status. However, it is more likely that some old, injured or debilitated individuals die in a fight with brown bears; thus, brown bears It will help to eliminate tigers that are potentially dangerous to humans (Kostoglod, 1981). Predation by brown bears is one of the reasons for the death of cubs. Gorokhov (1977) counted 14 cubs that died in 1951-1972, 3 of them Just killed by brown bears." *Note: a healthy adult tiger can easily and will avoid a full-grown male brown bear. Bears do not hunt tigers, but will take advantage of an easy catch and kill such as an old, injured, sickly, or young juvenile tiger which he might happen upon. A bear is an opportunist.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:13:04 GMT -5
2. Does the bear have the initiative in the relationship between the bear and the tiger? Let's take a look at the opinions that are widely circulated on the Internet. Most of them are taken for granted, and they cannot escape the tiger speed theory, tiger flexibility theory and tiger skill theory. These viewpoints believe that tigers are fast and have absolute control over the battlefield. They can fight if they can, but they can run if they can't. Is this really the case?
Tigers, as active predators of pure meat, usually take the initiative to attack. However, both brown bears and Asiatic black bears are mainly vegetarian, with a vegetarian ratio of 78.4% and 94.1%, respectively. But in years of famine, brown bears can become aggressive and aggressive. Brown bears sometimes attack tigers. Original content: In 45 cases of conflict between brown bear and tiger, 13 cases of tiger actively attacked, 8 cases of brown bear active attack, in 51.1% of the cases, the tiger won, in 26.7% of the cases, the bear won, in 22.2% of the cases In the example, the winner is not determined.
At this time, someone proposed that the tiger has a high winning rate, and the tiger kills more brown bears , so the tiger is stronger than the brown bear. However, tigers are active predators of pure meat, while brown bears are scavengers with 78.4% vegetarian food. Brown bears must be much less aggressive than tigers. The gold content of the 8 active attacks of the highly vegetarian brown bear on the tiger is already quite high. *Note: Tigers only hunt juvenile brown bears, female brown bears, and black bears. A tiger will nearly always choose a bear at least 100-pounds lighter in weight than himself. Any case of a brown bear attacking a tiger is most likely going after cubs or other small or weak individual. A healthy adult tiger can easily avoid the bear. On rare occasion, a young adult tiger might be foolish enough to attempt to defend a carcass from an adult male brown bear, resulting in a dead tiger.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:15:31 GMT -5
3. Will brown bears chase tigers over long distances? The third question is actually an in-depth exploration of tiger speed theory. Whether the brown bear will chase the tiger, and how far the chase distance, the answer is given in the following two examples. Underlined: "In some cases, brown bears can hunt tigers for long periods of time and be successful."
Two specific examples are given in the following literature. Original text: "Kostoglod (1981) described an incident in which a large brown bear chased a male tiger (the tiger's front pad width was 10.5 cm, which should belong to a young male tiger), and the bear continued to follow the tiger for more than 14 kilometers. Finally, the tiger crossed it. Frozen channels with many human footprints stopped the bears from pursuing them. In another incident, the remains of a tiger eaten by a bear were found (Kostoglod, 1981), and miles of river beach were covered with predator footprints, The tiger circled and turned in a circle, trying to escape capture, but was caught and torn to pieces."
These two examples show the horror of brown bears vividly. In their active period, brown bears eat 21.6% of meat and 78.4% of vegetarians. But when the year of famine comes, the brown bear's favorite nuts and acorns fail, the number of hoofed animals dwindles, and an existential crisis looms, and starvation forces the "big Siberian hamster" to become a "big devil in the taiga" . At times, they will also unceremoniously attack the "uncrowned king of the taiga" - the tiger. Although the tiger is the supreme belief of a certain group, nothing is to be offended in the presence of a hungry brown bear. *Note: I honestly don't Believe that a bear ever purposely sets out to go tiger hunting; but if he is hungry enough and spots a large tiger, the bear just might go for it. Even though the tiger can run faster, the bear has the big cat easily beaten in stamina. Also, a bear is stubborn and does not easily quit.
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:20:46 GMT -5
4. Is the tiger in the bear's recipe? You can often hear such sayings on the Internet: "The brown bear is in the tiger's recipe, so the tiger is strong", "The brown bear is just the tiger's food" , etc. The central idea is "The tiger eats the brown bear, so the tiger is the most powerful" . According to scientific research, bears do occupy a certain proportion in the diet of tigers. But appearing in the recipe does not mean that the tiger killed the bear it eats, nor can it be concluded that who is stronger than the other! Scavenger is a broader food source . Note that eating is not the same as killing .
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:22:27 GMT -5
If eating is equal to being in the recipe, then the tiger must also be in the recipe of the brown bear. Not only that, according to the research of the scientific research paper, the tiger also occupies a certain proportion in the recipe of the brown bear. Similarly, the tiger is also in the brown bear's diet, but it does not mean that the brown bear killed the tiger it ate! According to the 2015 paper "Comparative Study of the Diet Composition of Brown Bears and Asian Black Bears in the Central Sikhote-Alin Region", tigers accounted for 1.7% of the brown bear's diet in spring, and the brown bear's meat diet at this time was 32.4% . The total active period diet accounted for 0.4% , and the meat ratio of all active brown bears was 21.6% .
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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2022 10:26:23 GMT -5
5. Can tigers kill hibernating adult male brown bears? There is such a view that tigers can hunt and kill hibernating male bears. In fact, this is another assumption and has no basis. The hibernation of bears is very different from that of cold-blooded animals. Bears can wake up at any time during the hibernation process. During a bear's hibernation, tigers will hunt and kill hibernating bears, but not all hibernating bears. Original text: "Tigers do not always dare to attack when they encounter hibernating bears. Such an incident was observed in the frontier: an adult female tiger found a large male bear sleeping in a cave, did not attempt to attack, but retreated A tiger passing by and seeing a large male bear hibernating in an open cave, the tiger suddenly turned 25 meters from the cave and left in the opposite direction along his own tracks (Yudakov, Nikolaev, 1987).”
Two cases of tigers encountering hibernating brown bears are described above. Tigers kill hibernating bears, the key is the size of the bear, even if the big brown bear is hibernating, the tiger will not dare to attack. In the monographs on Amur tiger engineering "Chapter 19: The relationship between Amur tigers and brown bears and black bears" and "Brown bears in Sikhote-Alin: ecology, behavior, conservation and economic utilization", it is pointed out: "Tigers kill only female brown bears. Brown bears and cubs, no adult males were killed."
This article has addressed the five questions listed above (1. Can bears kill tigers? 2. In the relationship between bears and tigers, do bears have the initiative? 3. Will brown bears chase tigers over long distances? 4. Does tigers In the bear's recipe? 5. Can tigers hunt and kill hibernating adult male brown bears?) has made answers, and each answer is based on scientific research examples. If you have any doubts about the content of this article, please give a basis that is equivalent to that of the scientific research paper, and refuse any group's fraud, brain supplementation, obscenity, tweets, online texts, stall texts, and pinyin readings.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 1:41:35 GMT -5
Siberian tiger v bear: even David Attenborough ‘wowed’ by Frozen Planet II www.theguardian.com/media/2022/sep/10/siberian-tiger-bear-david-attenborough-frozen-planet-ii-bbc-wildlife The BBC’s new wildlife series overcame photography challenges with hi-tech equipment and years of patience Tara Conlan Sat 10 Sep 2022 10.30 EDT 91 The tension in the air was palpable as the group of television producers waited with bated breath to see what would happen as the Siberian tiger crept into the bear’s cave. This was a groundbreaking moment in the making of wildlife documentaries, and one that will be seen by millions who tune into Frozen Planet II. It took three years of persistence and trial-and-error filming in Russian forests using remote cameras to get the footage of the tigers entering bears’ caves, said Elizabeth White – who worked on the original Frozen Planet and produced the award-winning “iguanas vs snakes” episode of Planet Earth II. The tiger footage captured such a unique moment, it even took David Attenborough by surprise. White told the Observer that, after hearing reports that tigers sometimes caught hibernating bears, catching this on film was “a labour of love” and “seemed like finding needles in a haystack”. “We completely failed the first year, so we shifted our location in season two and got some lovely shots – but no real substance. Then a local photographer said to us that our cameras were too big – the tigers are seeing them. We looked at the technology he was using, and sure enough the tigers were detecting the larger cameras.” By then, “technology had moved on”, said White “and we were able to get a smaller camera that was high enough resolution, and we managed to get footage of tigers entering the caves.” Frozen Planet will air on Sunday 11 September at 8pm on BBC One. *Note: Sadly, I do not have access to BBC.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 2:32:14 GMT -5
*Note: I have not ventured into other animal forums in a while; especially wildfact.com/forum/ and carnivora.net/interspecific-conflict-f8/ But this morning, I received an e-mail from King Kodiak that our 'friend' of many names (Apex Titan/Ghengis/Mountain Lord/Boogeyman), Peter's ward, is doing cartwheels as he celebrates some major pro-tiger event on the BBC documentary 'Frozen Planet 2'.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 3:34:34 GMT -5
Frozen Planet II Episode 1 Review - Speeding Orcas, Fading Tigers and a Homicidal Grizzly. Notice the speaker in this video refers to the moon bear as a sloth bear. I'm not criticizing the young man. The "average joe" cannot tell the difference between an American black bear, moon bear, sloth bear, sun bear or an Andean bear. I have high hopes that a member with access to BBC will post the entire 'Frozen Planet 2' soon.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 8:23:31 GMT -5
Frozen Planet 2
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 10:50:53 GMT -5
By David Attenborough The tiger footage captured such a unique moment, it even took David Attenborough by surprise. White told the Observer that, after hearing reports that tigers sometimes caught hibernating bears, catching this on film was “a labour of love” and “seemed like finding needles in a haystack”. “We completely failed the first year, so we shifted our location in season two and got some lovely shots – but no real substance. Then a local photographer said to us that our cameras were too big – the tigers are seeing them. We looked at the technology he was using, and sure enough the tigers were detecting the larger cameras.” By then, “technology had moved on”, said White “and we were able to get a smaller camera that was high enough resolution, and we managed to get footage of tigers entering the caves.” ________________________________________________________________________ *Note: They filmed a tiger entering the cave of a moon bear; very likely a she-bear ___ and that's it. Nothing more. *I would still like to have this video footage here.
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Post by brobear on Sept 13, 2022 12:15:00 GMT -5
Here's the tigress coming out of the bears cave, after failing to catch the bear. The Himalayan bear (months earlier) had retreated to the farthest part of the cave, and the tigress was simply too big to get through, so she had no choice but to leave: *Note: The moon bear was obviously much smaller than the tigress, which proves that this was either a very small adult female or (more likely) an adolescent moon bear. Conclusion: In this new BBC documentary 'Frozen Planet 2', in which biologists attempted to film a tiger ambushing a sleeping bear failed. No bears were killed.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 4:19:17 GMT -5
One of the classics; now in full frontal view! Siberian Tiger - Ussuri Brown Bear (max. shoulder heights; the difference is roughly the same as at average heights)
No tiger has ever been recorded, in a confirmed report, to have killed a bear as large or larger than himself.
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Post by Montezuma on Sept 20, 2022 20:52:42 GMT -5
Email reply from Yuliya Femonko, an researcher in Russian Far East. I asked her about that if a 210 kg and 250kg tiger and brown bear collide, so who would win? And here is her reply:- Hello,
"In the wild tigers weighting 210 kg practically do not exist (if they are not fed in McDonalds!) As a rule, a big male tiger that live in the Russian Far East weights about 180 kilograms. There are brown bears of 250 kilograms and even more no battles between big tigers and big brown bears were registered so far. A bear is usual Amur tiger prey and sometimes bears compose up to 20% in the tiger ration. As a rule, these are pretty young bears up to 2-3 years old weighting up to 100 kilograms.
"I think that the reals conflicts between big tigers and big bear happen just to demonstrate their status and not their force as the animals very clearly understand the threat of getting injured even if the wound could be not too serious. There are no hospitals and vets in the wild."
Therefore, the question who will win 250 or 210 is not correct for the wild environment.
The answers were provided by Pavel Fomenko, tiger expert from WWF.
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/6847/thread
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