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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 18:03:08 GMT -5
Ok, it is still facing an animal 6/5 times its size. To me, it is a great advantage. You are supposed to favor the wolf! You are TNG! Just joking bro. So i guess you vote for the hyena then. Awesome.I didn't vote since there is no voting poll, but i would vote hyena if the average of 60 kg is correct [which i think it is]. I do not express favoritism.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 23, 2020 18:11:45 GMT -5
You are supposed to favor the wolf! You are TNG! Just joking bro. So i guess you vote for the hyena then. Awesome. I didn't vote since there is no voting poll, but i would vote hyena if the average of 60 kg is correct [which i think it is]. I do not express favoritism. Ok awesome. But i hope you are not favoring the hyena just because of that mere 10 kg weight advantage. 10 kg might be 20% larger, but at those small weights, that 20% still translates to only 10 kg.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 18:17:50 GMT -5
I didn't vote since there is no voting poll, but i would vote hyena if the average of 60 kg is correct [which i think it is]. I do not express favoritism. Ok awesome. But i hope you are not favoring the hyena just because of that mere 10 kg weight advantage. Because at those small weights, 10 kg might be 20% larger, but that 20% still translates to only 10 kg. i am. 20 % will always be 20 %. I do not see other reasons why it would win. They are pretty even if we forget the weights. But they exists, so we have to take account of them. That's what i did. theundertaker45 what do you think ?
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 23, 2020 18:25:56 GMT -5
Holy Crap, if you think a 20% size advantage is a determining factor, i wonder who you think will win at average weights between an Ussuri brown bear (631 lbs), and an Amur tiger (419 lbs), the bear is 50.6% larger. This aside from being a better face to face fighter, better grappler, stronger, more stamina, more durable, more robust bones, etc, etc.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 23, 2020 18:36:31 GMT -5
With the usual weight advantage I would also bet on the hyena; also due to her much more robust limbs which would give her better stability during a fight.
Bite force would probably also go to the hyena with that weight difference; the matriarch would just be the much more physical combatant imo being able to dish out more damage and also take much more damage on the other hand.
I don't think that the agility and speed of the wolf would be enough to overturn that, it would eventually get overpowered I guess.
So 70/30 in favour of the hyena from my side.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 19:26:28 GMT -5
Holy Crap, if you think a 20% size advantage is a determining factor, i wonder who you think will win at average weights between an Ussuri brown bear (631 lbs), and an Amur tiger (419 lbs), the bear is 50.6% larger. This aside from being a better face to face fighter, better grappler, stronger, more stamina, more durable, more robust bones, etc, etc. A big cat and a bear isn't a wolf vs a hyena. And 419/631 = 66 % so 100 % - 66 % = 34 % larger
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 23, 2020 19:33:41 GMT -5
No. Your math is a little off there. Its 50.6%.
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Post by tom on Dec 23, 2020 21:37:49 GMT -5
Thing is you are looking at it percentage wise, but still, 22 lbs is nothing bro really, there is no way that's an advantage in a fight. I think it depends on what kind of an animal you're talking about. I may be off here but 22 lb is not a lot if you have an animal that weighs 600 and the other one 622 lb, but when the animals are roughly a hundred pounds give or take I think it's certainly more of an advantage, exactly how much who knows. But weight IMO is only one factor in a fight really, unless one side is grossly lopsided. While I'll agree it can be an advantage or significant factor, it may not always be the deciding factor on who wins. You can include speed, agility, endurance or stamina and even fighting technique also on playing a significant factor. I stand by my opinion you have a hyena and a wolf within 20 lb of each other, it can go either way.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 23, 2020 22:05:41 GMT -5
So you agree with me then, 50% correct? Can you put your vote.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2020 22:11:54 GMT -5
No. Your math is a little off there. Its 50.6%.
631 - 419 = 212 lbs 212/419 = 50.6 % 212/631 = 34 % 419/631 = 66 % so 100 - 66 % = 34 %. So the bear is 34 % larger, but the 212 lbs difference is equivalent to 50.6 % of the mass of the Tiger & 34 % of the bear mass. So yeah, you're right.
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Post by tom on Dec 23, 2020 22:14:20 GMT -5
So you agree with me then, 50% correct? Can you put your vote. Absolutely.
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Post by brobear on Dec 24, 2020 1:45:21 GMT -5
I voted 50/50 on this match. Both are armed with powerful jaws and flesh rending teeth. Both would be aiming ( I believe ) for the same target; the throat of his ( or her ) opponent. Basically, it seems that it boils down to the slight weight advantage of the hyena vs the slight speed advantage of the wolf. But, once a set of jaws is wrapped around the throat of the other; its over. *Is the hyena a superior grappler? This question lingers in my mind, but I don't know enough about hyenas.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 24, 2020 2:15:48 GMT -5
I voted 50/50 on this match. Both are armed with powerful jaws and flesh rending teeth. Both would be aiming ( I believe ) for the same target; the throat of his ( or her ) opponent. Basically, it seems that it boils down to the slight weight advantage of the hyena vs the slight speed advantage of the wolf. But, once a set of jaws is wrapped around the throat of the other; its over. *Is the hyena a superior grappler? This question lingers in my mind, but I don't know enough about hyenas. The spotted hyena is actually more related to the feline family compared to the canine family but it’s grappling ability is no better than that of the grey wolf.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2020 6:28:17 GMT -5
I didn't vote since there is no voting poll, but i would vote hyena if the average of 60 kg is correct [which i think it is]. I do not express favoritism. Ok awesome. But i hope you are not favoring the hyena just because of that mere 10 kg weight advantage. 10 kg might be 20% larger, but at those small weights, that 20% still translates to only 10 kg. 10 kg may not feel like a lot in our eyes, but at wolves and hyenas weights, it defenitely matters a lot. Like with insects other animal is only 1 real bigger, but in insects world it can matter a lot. Same here.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 24, 2020 7:09:13 GMT -5
Ok awesome. But i hope you are not favoring the hyena just because of that mere 10 kg weight advantage. 10 kg might be 20% larger, but at those small weights, that 20% still translates to only 10 kg. 10 kg may not feel like a lot in our eyes, but at wolves and hyenas weights, it defenitely matters a lot. Like with insects other animal is only 1 real bigger, but in insects world it can matter a lot. Same here. I dont see it that way to be honest, 10 kg is just 10 kg, no matter how you look at it. If animal x weights 50 kg, and animal x weights 60 kg, that to me is a non-factor. I voted for 50%, and am not saying the hyena cannot win more often, but if does it wont be because of this small weight advantage. The poll is in favour of the hyena now 4 to 3 of 50%.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 24, 2020 8:40:53 GMT -5
King KodiakNo, 10kg are not 10kg no matter how you look at it. Compare a bobcat with a clouded leopard for example, the weight difference will be 10kg and the latter is twice as large as the former. Now compare a 760kg plains bison to a 750kg cape buffalo, the weight difference is not even worth mentioning in that case. Everything is relative in animals, the lower the weight class gets the more significant a weight difference will become in comparison to the exact same weight difference at a higher weight class. Just look at the ratios: 60kg/50kg = 1.2; 20% 760kg/750kg = 1.01; 1% 20/1 = 20 The weight difference at this low weight class is ~20x more significant than the weight difference at a comparatively much higher weight class.
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Post by kesagake on Dec 24, 2020 9:05:58 GMT -5
I think any match up at weight parity is debatable. The Kruger hyena averages around 60 kg, while the NW wolf averages around 56 kg. We know the hyena bites harder. We know the wolf is smarter. With my limited knowledge on these 2 animals, i would say 50% although my opinion can change seeing other opinions.
I would love to see our wolf expert thenormalguy give his opinion on this. Aren't Hyenas smarter?
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Post by brobear on Dec 24, 2020 9:13:59 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 24, 2020 9:24:13 GMT -5
Yes, those would be the ratios. Thenormalguy said the same thing. If you looking at it "ratio wise", then yes, 20% sounds significant. But if you are looking at it "weight wise", than the difference is still just 22 god damn pounds, i really fail to see how is that important even at those low weights to be honest.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 24, 2020 9:34:12 GMT -5
King Kodiak Because the relative difference is much higher. The weight difference between a bobcat and a sand cat is also roughly 22lbs and it should be clear that a certain amount of weight gets more and more significant when moving down the weight classes. There is a reason why Einstein invented the theory of relativity.
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