|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2018 13:10:14 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ GRIZZLIES CAN WEIGH UP TO 1,000 POUNDS, RUN AS FAST AS A HORSE, crush a moose's skull with one powerful blow and, after biting a 700-pound rival's thigh, shake him, in the words of the Craigheads, as a "terrier shakes a rat." The bears' tread may be silent, their mood unpredictable and their bite powerful enough to puncture thick metal. These are hardly typical attributes of an underdog, yet in 1959, when Frank and John began their new project, that is precisely what the humpbacked bears were. With their massive bulk and menace, grizzlies, who are the very image of wild America, were considered at best nuisances and at worst threats to human life. In the lower 48 states, they were vanishing.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 6, 2018 15:28:42 GMT -5
carnivora.net/ Bear forearm strength: by bluefirehawk. Quote: Of all the morphologic features that typify bears, the front limbs and associated skeletal infrastructure are the most distinctive. They are also diagnostic of the bear life strategy (see Life strategy). No other terrestrial vertebrate of its size--certainly no other large carnivore--has front limbs that are as flexible, powerfully built, and mounted with such dexterous paws. Nor do any comparable-sized carnivores have such out-sized claws...claws which are clearly "designed" to be powered by the muscular arms and shoulders to either climb trees, extract food from a durable matrix (i.e., dig), or grapple with and subdue large prey such as seals, moose, and elk. What follows is a summary of the evidence produced over the years elaborating on and substantiating the preceding thumbnail sketch. You will have to forgive me for the abundance that follows, but it is reflective of the extent to which I see this aspect of bear morphology as key to understanding the overall bear life strategy--as well as niche. www.allgrizzly.org/front-limbs This source was from Warsaw. Just a reminder to all including myself, this section is not for animal vs animal debate section so if you want a debate continue it on the polar bear vs Siberian tiger thread where I found this article from. Lets look for more articles on this topic. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 6, 2018 15:29:42 GMT -5
carnivora.net/ - by mustang. That's why I consider bears to be among the best grapplers and wrestlers that exist (or have existed for that matter). It is that feature that makes them such difficult animals to defeat. K9-boy says: digging animals tend to have the strongest forequarters. badgers also fall under this bracker.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 23:50:49 GMT -5
carnivora.net/ Bear forearm strength: by bluefirehawk. Quote: Of all the morphologic features that typify bears, the front limbs and associated skeletal infrastructure are the most distinctive. They are also diagnostic of the bear life strategy (see Life strategy). No other terrestrial vertebrate of its size--certainly no other large carnivore--has front limbs that are as flexible, powerfully built, and mounted with such dexterous paws. Nor do any comparable-sized carnivores have such out-sized claws...claws which are clearly "designed" to be powered by the muscular arms and shoulders to either climb trees, extract food from a durable matrix (i.e., dig), or grapple with and subdue large prey such as seals, moose, and elk. What follows is a summary of the evidence produced over the years elaborating on and substantiating the preceding thumbnail sketch. You will have to forgive me for the abundance that follows, but it is reflective of the extent to which I see this aspect of bear morphology as key to understanding the overall bear life strategy--as well as niche. www.allgrizzly.org/front-limbs This source was from Warsaw. Just a reminder to all including myself, this section is not for animal vs animal debate section so if you want a debate continue it on the polar bear vs Siberian tiger thread where I found this article from. Lets look for more articles on this topic. Thanks. Brown bears are strong no doubt. I think the brown bear with the biggest skeleton is the Kodiak brown bear. (Ursus arctos middendorffi) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 23:52:53 GMT -5
carnivora.net/ - by mustang. That's why I consider bears to be among the best grapplers and wrestlers that exist (or have existed for that matter). It is that feature that makes them such difficult animals to defeat. K9-boy says: digging animals tend to have the strongest forequarters. badgers also fall under this bracker. Correct bears fighting style resemble that of a wrestler. Bear=WRESTLER. What fighting style resemble a tiger or any other big cat? |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 7, 2018 4:13:33 GMT -5
Big cats are also grapplers, and very good. But a grizzly is even better. The bear has even a greater range of motion in his arms and he is both smarter and stronger.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 7:33:18 GMT -5
Big cats are also grapplers, and very good. But a grizzly is even better. The bear has even a greater range of motion in his arms and he is both smarter and stronger. Who do you think have the more deadly claws between bears and big cats? |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 7, 2018 7:53:48 GMT -5
Big cats are also grapplers, and very good. But a grizzly is even better. The bear has even a greater range of motion in his arms and he is both smarter and stronger. Who do you think have the more deadly claws between bears and big cats? Good question. This topic was once debated at AVA. The tiger's claws ( believe it or not ) is similar in length to the grizzly's. The cat's claws are retractable to help keep them sharp. They are basically sharp hooks, designed to hold-on and used to pull down prey animals. A grizzly's claws are designed for digging into hard ground. So both of these animals have strong claws. In a fight, the big cat's claws are more likely to get hung-up in some tough hide or tendons. Have you ever noticed when a house cat gets hung-up on a piece of furniture. I have seen pictures of the damage one lion inflicts on another with his claws. Terrible. But, I have also seen the devastation one grizzly inflicts on another with his claws. Horrible beyond belief. The bear has greater force behind his claws. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 8:00:50 GMT -5
Who do you think have the more deadly claws between bears and big cats? Good question. This topic was once debated at AVA. The tiger's claws ( believe it or not ) is similar in length to the grizzly's. The cat's claws are retractable to help keep them sharp. They are basically sharp hooks, designed to hold-on and used to pull down prey animals. A grizzly's claws are designed for digging into hard ground. So both of these animals have strong claws. In a fight, the big cat's claws are more likely to get hung-up in some tough hide or tendons. Have you ever noticed when a house cat gets hung-up on a piece of furniture. I have seen pictures of the damage one lion inflicts on another with his claws. Terrible. But, I have also seen the devastation one grizzly inflicts on another with his claws. Horrible beyond belief. The bear has greater force behind his claws. I agree with you all the way. I think a grizzly claws will be more devastating than a tiger or lion claws. In this link you can see the damage done by bear claws and they do cut deep! www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/game-changers/thirteen-yards-one-second-why-you-can-never-outrun-charging-bear#page-2 |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Nov 7, 2018 10:08:41 GMT -5
That is some nice damage there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 10:21:42 GMT -5
That is some nice damage there. Yes and that's all from the bears claws. |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Nov 17, 2018 10:15:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 17, 2018 10:23:21 GMT -5
Good find Kodiak. Most common method of bear killing sheep: Hold with paws and bite. Consider this is for ungulates ranging from 100 to 200 pounds.  |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Nov 17, 2018 12:46:07 GMT -5
Also notice that in that time period, (1976 to 1978) black bears killed more than triple the amount of sheep than grizzly bears.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 18, 2018 4:52:00 GMT -5
Also notice that in that time period, (1976 to 1978) black bears killed more than triple the amount of sheep than grizzly bears. Where? Is this a study taken within a location where grizzlies and black bears have a similar population number? Is this a country-wide study where black bears live in nearly every state but grizzlies only in a few states?  |
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Nov 18, 2018 7:50:47 GMT -5
Also notice that in that time period, (1976 to 1978) black bears killed more than triple the amount of sheep than grizzly bears. Where? Is this a study taken within a location where grizzlies and black bears have a similar population number? Is this a country-wide study where black bears live in nearly every state but grizzlies only in a few states? The study was taken in the Targhee national forest in southeastern Idaho for 3 seasons. There are alot of black bears, but the grizzlies are very limited, that would explain this situation. www.fs.usda.gov/detail/ctnf/learning/nature-science/?cid=STELPRDB5167018 |
|
|
|
Post by Gort. on Nov 19, 2018 17:07:41 GMT -5
Funny that the available video evidence does not support the views expressed in written accounts. The bear-on-bear conflict does present as a ritualised 'sumo' style wrestling contest, with few 'haymakers' thrown. Bear skin also appears to be easily torn/shredded down, even by blunted claws in scraps over salmon fishing spots. As for 'grappling', compare how lions use their meat hook claws to penetrate and grasp through the tough hide of buffalo. They do this routinely for a living, and lion hide has to cope with those sharp claws in conflict settings too.  Notch and his boys would love to show any grizzly they found, just how effectively a professional crew of killers operates... |
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 19, 2018 17:27:46 GMT -5
Quote from guest: Funny that the available video evidence does not support the views expressed in written accounts.
The bear-on-bear conflict does present as a ritualised 'sumo' style wrestling contest, with few 'haymakers' thrown.
Bear skin also appears to be easily torn/shredded down, even by blunted claws in scraps over salmon fishing spots.
As for 'grappling', compare how lions use their meat hook claws to penetrate and grasp through the tough hide of buffalo.
They do this routinely for a living, and lion hide has to cope with those sharp claws in conflict settings too.
Answer: Grizzly hide is tough. You have seen grizzlies with horrific battle-scars from fights. The grizzly's powerful arms and claws can dig into concrete-hard earth. For your information, there have been numerous fights between lion and grizzly, including being a popular fight in the ancient Roman arena. The lion has never won this fight.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gort. on Nov 19, 2018 17:28:28 GMT -5
Nah, doubt it.
Zoo animals are not in the same league as those who regularly kill powerful beasts for a living,
and who also must fight to establish the right to lord it over the choicest hunting grounds.
Notch would deal to the grizz, and take his fill of the meat - before he let his boys feed.
|
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 19, 2018 17:32:20 GMT -5
Nah, doubt it. Zoo animals are not in the same league as those who regularly kill powerful beasts for a living, and who also must fight to establish the right to lord it over the choicest hunting grounds. Notch would deal to the grizz, and take his fill of the meat - before he let his boys feed. A grizzly would not challenge a pride of lions nor a brotherhood. But a single lion is hardly a contest for a mature male grizzly. Those were not zoo lions in Rome. |
|
