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Post by King Kodiak on May 3, 2020 17:40:04 GMT -5
No brobear. Its the lion team that wins. 3 lions are counted as a team.
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Post by tom on May 3, 2020 17:40:32 GMT -5
For those that believe the bear would win more often than not, would this be different if I increased the lions weight up to 500 lbs instead of 420? No.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 17:47:23 GMT -5
For those that believe the bear would win more often than not, would this be different if I increased the lions weight up to 500 lbs instead of 420? 1300 pounds and 420 pounds is already well above average for both. I was aware of that for the bear but isn't a 420 lb lion a decent sized lion? A 500 lb lion is pretty powerful.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 17:48:25 GMT -5
No brobear. Its the lion team that wins. 3 lions are counted as a team. He means as a species. Two lions die trying to kill a bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 3, 2020 17:54:57 GMT -5
No brobear. Its the lion team that wins. 3 lions are counted as a team. He means as a species. Two lions die trying to kill a bear. He means 3 lions vs 1 bear. He thinks that if 2 lions die and the bear dies also. He thinks the bear is the winner even though 1 lion is still standing. But the lion team is the one that won.
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Post by brobear on May 3, 2020 17:57:57 GMT -5
Quote: No brobear. Its the lion team that wins. 3 lions are counted as a team. No matter - realistically there are four animals involved here. ( we started off with three ). Every life matters right? This is why a pack of 14 big timber wolves will not challenge one Yellowstone grizzly. Every pack member matters. Yes, three lions can kill one big grizzly; even if that grizzly is a Kodiak bear boar. But the cost is too high a price.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 17:58:08 GMT -5
He means as a species. Two lions die trying to kill a bear. He means 3 lions vs 1 bear. He thinks that if 2 lions die and the bear dies also. He thinks the bear is the winner even though 1 lion is still standing. But the lion team is the one that won.Yes, the lion is still standing but he means as a species. It took two lions dying to bring down the bear. It would be the same as if 8 wolves attacked a bear and 6 of them died. The bear wins as a species. I only know this because of a previous debate back on yuku of the same topic.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 3, 2020 18:00:37 GMT -5
As a species? Its real simple, we have the lion team (3 members), we have the bear team (1 member). If 2 lions and the bear die, this means the lion team wins.
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Post by brobear on May 3, 2020 18:04:41 GMT -5
This is exasperating. If there is one lion standing but two dead lions and only one dead bear - bear wins on points. Out there in the world are more living bears; as alive as the one lion standing there after the fight. Bears are loners; lions are mobsters. But each life is one life. A fight to the death is not a game.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 18:17:21 GMT -5
In your opinion, which is more of a threat to a lion weighing 420 lbs? A guar weighing 2000 lbs or a 900 lb grizzly bear?
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Post by tom on May 3, 2020 18:32:12 GMT -5
In your opinion, which is more of a threat to a lion weighing 420 lbs? A guar weighing 2000 lbs or a 900 lb grizzly bear? Grizzly.
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Post by brobear on May 3, 2020 18:35:01 GMT -5
In your opinion, which is more of a threat to a lion weighing 420 lbs? A guar weighing 2000 lbs or a 900 lb grizzly bear? The 900 pound grizzly bear without a doubt. It is possible for the lion to ambush and kill the one-ton gaur. The lion has 10-million years of past ambush predation guiding him instinctively. But a 900-pound grizzly is a monster. Even should the lion ambush this bear, I'd wager the farm and my baby sister on the bear. What is either forgotten, ignored, or perhaps simply not well known; a big cat does not have the tools to make a quick kill of a big healthy grizzly boar. There is going to be one hellacious fight.
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Post by tom on May 3, 2020 18:40:07 GMT -5
As a species? Its real simple, we have the lion team (3 members), we have the bear team (1 member). If 2 lions and the bear die, this means the lion team wins. I think your looking at it completely different than brobear. Example: on points each animal is given 2 points. 3 Lions = 6 points 1 Kodiak bear = 2 points Bear kills 2 Lions = 4 points Lions kill 1 bear = 2 points. Bear wins on points 4 to 2. If your predicating which species survives the battle then a single lion standing everything else dead Lion wins. Two different ways of looking at it. IMO the Lions are the biggest loser as they lost two of their species and the Bear only one.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 18:50:43 GMT -5
In your opinion, which is more of a threat to a lion weighing 420 lbs? A guar weighing 2000 lbs or a 900 lb grizzly bear? The 900 pound grizzly bear without a doubt. It is possible for the lion to ambush and kill the one-ton gaur. The lion has 10-million years of past ambush predation guiding him instinctively. But a 900-pound grizzly is a monster. Even should the lion ambush this bear, I'd wager the farm and my baby sister on the bear. What is either forgotten, ignored, or perhaps simply not well known; a big cat does not have the tools to make a quick kill of a big healthy grizzly boar. There is going to be one hellacious fight. I have a very hard time imagining a 420 lb lion bringing down a 2000 lb guar. Same with a tiger of that weight. Bovines have survived ambush attacks by vigorously shaking off the big cat. Not saying it's impossible but that's a lot of power.
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Post by brobear on May 3, 2020 18:51:21 GMT -5
Yeah; I understand the "sports" viewpoint. Its hard for me to see things in this perspective. In 'Nam, no matter how many were out there; one dead marine counted big time. Sorry to bring this into the forum. I'm drinking and my mind goes there. I'll log out....
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 19:02:55 GMT -5
Yeah; I understand the "sports" viewpoint. Its hard for me to see things in this perspective. In 'Nam, no matter how many were out there; one dead marine counted big time. Sorry to bring this into the forum. I'm drinking and my mind goes there. I'll log out.... You're fine old bud. I also forgot you were a veteran.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 3, 2020 20:23:16 GMT -5
As a species? Its real simple, we have the lion team (3 members), we have the bear team (1 member). If 2 lions and the bear die, this means the lion team wins. I think your looking at it completely different than brobear. Example: on points each animal is given 2 points. 3 Lions = 6 points 1 Kodiak bear = 2 points Bear kills 2 Lions = 4 points Lions kill 1 bear = 2 points. Bear wins on points 4 to 2. If your predicating which species survives the battle then a single lion standing everything else dead Lion wins. Two different ways of looking at it. IMO the Lions are the biggest loser as they lost two of their species and the Bear only one. Oh ok, i did not know we had points in this battle. Yeah we have two different ways. I thought it was team lion (3 lions), vs team bear (1 bear), if 2 lions and the bear die, this means team lion won. I dont know, thats just how i see it.
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Post by brobear on May 4, 2020 3:35:37 GMT -5
I apologize for Reply #54 last night guys. Really sorry about that. Doesn't happen often...
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Post by tom on May 4, 2020 9:49:59 GMT -5
1300 pounds and 420 pounds is already well above average for both. I was aware of that for the bear but isn't a 420 lb lion a decent sized lion? A 500 lb lion is pretty powerful. IMO an increase of 80 lbs is not going to change anything significantly to increase the advantages to the Lions. Two Lions at 500 pounds each is still 500 lbs short of our 1500 lb Kodiak Bear. A bear that size has so much raw power that most people can't even fantasize how powerful they really are. In the documentary (forget the name) that had Van and Alice as a dominant male and female coastal Brown bear, there was a scene where Van who tips the scales at roughly 1200 lbs killed a female that was probably an easy 500 lbs within seconds. I mean literally seconds.... I see no reason why a Bear like that could not do the same to a Male Lion in short order as well.
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Post by brobear on May 4, 2020 10:04:47 GMT -5
I was aware of that for the bear but isn't a 420 lb lion a decent sized lion? A 500 lb lion is pretty powerful. IMO an increase of 80 lbs is not going to change anything significantly to increase the advantages to the Lions. Two Lions at 500 pounds each is still 500 lbs short of our 1500 lb Kodiak Bear. A bear that size has so much raw power that most people can't even fantasize how powerful they really are. In the documentary (forget the name) that had Van and Alice as a dominant male and female coastal Brown bear, there was a scene where Van who tips the scales at roughly 1200 lbs killed a female that was probably an easy 500 lbs within seconds. I mean literally seconds.... I see no reason why a Bear like that could not do the same to a Male Lion in short order as well. In fact, that 500-pound female grizzly is a thicker-tougher built animal than a lankier lion of the same weight. The 500-pound bear is in a more compact package. The lion should actually be easier to make a quick-kill of ( IMHO ).
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