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Post by Montezuma on May 14, 2021 18:49:34 GMT -5
Just for reliability sake, there was only 1 fight between a grizzly and a lion in California, and the bear "Ramadam" killed the African lion "Parnell" "like a cat would a rat", he killed him so fast that the audience hardly knew what had happened. But that was the only fight. Like in roman arenas, bears also won in california as grizzlies of california were also gaints. Sadly,other fights are not documented like this one however i have read some spanish saying that lion is not king of beasts, bear beat lion or bears have destroyed 99% lions in fight are proves that bears always won from lions. Further those spanish who favoured grizzly have based their opinions on those lion vs bear pit fights. My opinion.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 16, 2021 3:43:19 GMT -5
I have no doubt the Ussuri black bears and other moon bears will quickly be out of endangered list if poachers left them alone.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 4:05:16 GMT -5
( 1 ) California Grizzly by Tracy Irwin Storer ( 2 ) Bear - History of a Fallen King by Michel Pastoureau ( 3 ) Tahoe Tales - of Historic Times & Unforgettable People. Three historic books each of which tells of the lion being defeated by the brown bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 16, 2021 4:09:18 GMT -5
The Californian grizzly bear can reach up to 2000 pounds and even at average weights, it is heavier than the largest lion. Of course it will win.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 4:13:25 GMT -5
The Californian grizzly bear can reach up to 2000 pounds and even at average weights, it is heavier than the largest lion. Of course it will win. Lions have also lost to interior grizzlies and European brown bears, as well as to Atlas bears. The average California grizzly might have been on par with Alaskan coastal brown bears.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 16, 2021 4:30:20 GMT -5
/\ That is because male interior grizzlies, European brown bears, and Atlas bears are heavier than lions on average. Therefore, they would be stronger.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 4:34:01 GMT -5
/\ That is because male interior grizzlies, European brown bears, and Atlas bears are heavier than lions on average. Therefore, they would be stronger. *500 pound lion vs 500 pound brown bear, I would estimate 6 out of 10 for the bear. Remember that at equal weight, the big cat is longer and taller at bipedal height. But, the bear is still stronger.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 8:25:00 GMT -5
Pictured, this African lion would have some weight advantage over the bear. But, at weight-parity. perhaps 440-pound lion vs 440-pound Ussuri brown bear, I would wager on the bear in a face-to-face confrontation. However, any weight-parity fight is debatable.
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Post by Montezuma on May 16, 2021 9:11:23 GMT -5
Some accounts of lions killing bears with single swipe is really ridiculuous. How can this happen? I saw that one type of this account taken from book in which the book was in the caterogy of humor. This means that account was also a joke.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 9:24:35 GMT -5
Some accounts of lions killing bears with single swipe is really ridiculuous. How can this happen? I saw that one type of this account taken from book in which the book was in the caterogy of humor. This means that account was also a joke. When polar and I first started this site, we had ( probably ) every captive bear and big cat fight ever reported. Certainly the vast majority. But those old stories are taken from ages-old newspapers. During the 19th and early 20th centuries, newspapers relied heavily upon sensationalism. Wild tales to entertain the public before movies or television. Some were probably true. Some with a thread of truth and a lot of stretching. Some pure fiction. We have no reliable method of telling what stories are true. Some even had multiple endings; according to which newspaper you might buy. A bear can withstand a paw-strike from a fellow bear - much more awesome than a paw-swipe of any big cat.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 16, 2021 9:24:43 GMT -5
To be honest, i would bet on a lion over a black bear even if the bear has like a 50 lb weight advantage. Black bears are just too passive, especially the American black bear. In the wild, a black bear would most likely run away from a single lion, unless its a Himalayan black bear.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 9:28:22 GMT -5
Quote: In the wild, a black bear would most likely run away from a single lion, unless its a Himalayan black bear. Any black bear, including a Himalayan will scamper up a tree if one is available and there is time. I chose the Ussuri as he is the biggest of the Asiatic black bears and probably every bit as aggressive as a Himalayan.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 16, 2021 9:43:49 GMT -5
Quote: In the wild, a black bear would most likely run away from a single lion, unless its a Himalayan black bear. Any black bear, including a Himalayan will scamper up a tree if one is available and there is time. I chose the Ussuri as he is the biggest of the Asiatic black bears and probably every bit as aggressive as a Himalayan. Not the Himalayan one no, he will fight:
"about the most fierce, vicious, dangerous brute to be meet"
Reply #19:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/26891/thread
The Ussuri black bear is my least favorite bear, there is not one account of it besting a tiger.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 10:13:08 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_black_bear 1- Ursus thibetanus formosanus - The Formosan black bear - Taiwan. 2- Ursus thibetanus gedrosianus - The Balochistan black bear - Southern Balochistan. 3- Ursus thibetanus japonicus - The Japanese black bear - Honshū and Shikoku. Extinct on Kyushu. 4- Ursus thibetanus laniger - The Himalayan black bear - Kashmir, the Himalayas and Sikkim. 5- Ursus thibetanus mupinensis - Light-coloured, similar to Ursus thibetanus laniger - The Himalayas and Indochina. 6- Ursus thibetanus ussuricus - The Ussuri black bear - Southern Siberia, northeastern China and the Korean peninsula. Take a good look at where Ursus thibetanus laniger, the Himalayan black bear lives. Kashmir - is the northernmost geographical region of the Indian subcontinent. Sikkim - is a state in northeastern India. The Himalayan Mountains - Amur tigers do not live in the Himalayan Mountains. I believe that "Himalayan black bear" is often simply a generalized term for any Asiatic black bear, much as "grizzly bear" is often a generalized term for any brown bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 16, 2021 12:27:24 GMT -5
Yes, i agree 100%. That is why when you read that Siberian tigers kill adult male Himalayan black bears in the Russian far east, they really mean Ussuri black bears. For one, Himalayan black bears only go up to Russia in the Summer months, they are not there year round, and for two, Peter has never seen a reliable account of a tiger killing an adult male Himalayan black bear.
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Post by brobear on May 16, 2021 12:41:37 GMT -5
Quote: That is why when you read that Siberian tigers kill adult male Himalayan black bears in the Russian far east, they really mean Ussuri black bears. MY point exactly. "Himalayan black bear" is not only a specific species found only in the Himalayan Mountains, but also a common name used for any Asiatic black bear. Another point, the Amur tiger is the only tiger who routinely hunts bears. As Peter once pointed out, the Amur is better equipped for bears than the Bengal. A Bengal tiger is built like a tank - thick, stocky, muscular. But, a tiger cannot out-match a bear in girth. The Amur is lighter built, therefore quicker and more agile. Thus, the Amur is better armed for hunting bears. There is always more bear remains found in Amur droppings than in that of any other tiger. In fact, bear remains are rarely found in the droppings of any other tiger subspecies.
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Post by brobear on May 17, 2021 5:06:46 GMT -5
Unless Asiatic lions are given more free-roaming land, they will never see a bear or a tiger. My thoughts, inbreeding will become a huge problem for the Gir lions. Probably already is.
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Post by Montezuma on May 17, 2021 7:55:57 GMT -5
"Those who called tge lion as king of beadts knew nithing about the strength, courage and tenacity of the heizzly bear."
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Post by brobear on May 17, 2021 8:51:59 GMT -5
As I've mentioned throughout the Domain on several occasions, we cannot know how many of the old news reports can be considered factual. But, I can say that, according to them ( old newspaper stories from the 19th and early 20th centuries ) the lion has a history of performing poorly against a bear. www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers/viewtopic.php?id=546 Darren Naish: I'm sorry to say that bears and lions have been pitted against one another on many, many occasions, always for human 'sport'. When brown/grizzly bears are involved, they always win hands-down: in fact, in historical pitted fights fought in Canada, lions were reputed to last less than 5 mins against adult bears. Even small bears like sloth bears can hold their own against adult lions, with the lion coming off much worse.
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Post by Montezuma on May 17, 2021 9:20:01 GMT -5
As I've mentioned throughout the Domain on several occasions, we cannot know how many of the old news reports can be considered factual. But, I can say that, according to them ( old newspaper stories from the 19th and early 20th centuries ) the lion has a history of performing poorly against a bear. www.askabiologist.org.uk/answers/viewtopic.php?id=546 Darren Naish: I'm sorry to say that bears and lions have been pitted against one another on many, many occasions, always for human 'sport'. When brown/grizzly bears are involved, they always win hands-down: in fact, in historical pitted fights fought in Canada, lions were reputed to last less than 5 mins against adult bears. Even small bears like sloth bears can hold their own against adult lions, with the lion coming off much worse. However, even if newspaper are not factual yet we have book proof from Tahoe tales of historic times & Unforgotten people and California grizzly that bears always killed lion in American pit fights. Thats enough. The newspaper accounts cannot match the books stating grizzlies always killed lions.🙂
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