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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 9:28:05 GMT -5
@shadow Yeah, I agree; the two subspecies here seem to overlap heavily in terms of weight (both on average and at maximum size); I think we shared some data on brown bear hunting in Romania in the respective thread on Eurasian brown bears and the average shoulder height of an adult male was about 110cm, so I stuck to that and compared it with the data that we have for Ussuri brown bears (their maximum shoulder height is practically identical when looking at the largest specimens of the sample though). Interestingly, in Mammals of the Soviet Union they describe Ursus arctos arctos (Middle Russian Bear in their book) as a bear of moderate size with a greatest skull length of up to 388mm and a maximum weight of 320-350kg whereas the Ussuri brown bear is described as having a greatest skull length of up to 455mm and similar in size to the Kamchatka brown bear. Looking at actual weight samples of the two, we can see that they overlap; although there are heavy regional differences in terms of size when we look at Ursus arctos arctos; a more widespread subspecies and hence a higher fluctuation. As far as I know the biggest Ussuri brown bear weighed under scientific terms on the Russian Mainland weighed ~363kg; in Hokkaido there was one bear exceeding 500kg (520kg to be precise I think). As far as hunting literature goes, I seemingly couldn't find anything on a record Ussuri brown bear, although the largest skull is very impressive having a total score of 729mm or 28.7in which is just about 2in short from the world record Alaskan (Kodiak) brown bear skull. Biggest or at least heaviest wild bear in Finland was an individual which was weighed when it was radiocollared. He was named Jakki and he was 373 kg. Heaviest hunted bear here has been 361 kg, one other was over 350 kg, but I don´t remember now his exact weight. What comes to skulls, biggest skulls from here have been approximately as long as Kodiak bears have, but a bit more narrow. Based on some studies which I´ve seen some time ago and can´t now remember all details gave to me impression, that overall if taking a random bears from western Russia and eastern Russia, differences might be more imaginary than real ones. Dark fur color can be more common in Ussuri-Amur region though. Even though in Finland can be seen also often bears with very dark fur. Biggest skull here from hunted bears has been 26,83 in. And to compare to 455 cm Ussuri brown bear skull, longest here has been 450 mm. But all these have been smaller bears, than for instance Jakki was.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 9:40:36 GMT -5
Here one Finnish article, in which Jakki was mentioned. It tells about situation, when that 361 kg bear was shot. www.kaleva.fi/ks-kuhmossa-kaadettiin-kaikkien-aikojen-suurin-kar/2416059One big boy from Finland. This is an article from January 2014, a bear was shot when it attacked a hunter. I don´t know what he was hunting, but looks like a case in which he disturbed by accident a bear near den. Bear was weighed and he was 306 kg. If you open up article, photo is from archive and not the bear which is mentioned in article. And of course article in Finnish, but weight can be checked there. I put this article to show, that even though there aren´t so many studies from here, a 300 kg or heavier bear here isn´t something extraordinary. jpnews.fi/uutiset/karstulassa-haavoittunut-yli-300-kiloinen-uroskarhu-lopetettiin/This one mentions a hunted bear from August 2006, weight 310 kg. www.savonsanomat.fi/teemat/3374036October 2010, a bear weighing 346 kg was hunted and shot. It was found out to be radiocollared 2007 and named as Ukko. yle.fi/uutiset/3-5644786September 2020, a bear weighing 325 kg was hunted. www.aamulehti.fi/uutiset/art-2000007503321.htmlOne more, early 1980´s was shot a bear, which was weighed after it was butchered. So no more skin, inner organs, blood, head or legs. It was still 294 kg, so conservative estimation of weight when alive was 350 kg. I have to look closer, that were legs already cut off when it was weighed. This article doesn´t open up completely if not subscriber. If you look at article and photo, that photo is from smaller, only 170 kg bear. www.kaleva.fi/kolarin-karhu-kiskottiin-kyytiin-kattotelineelle-j/2798125
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2021 11:12:01 GMT -5
It appears that the brown bears of the taiga of both Europe and Russia are larger than inland grizzly bears of N. America.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 11:23:58 GMT -5
It appears that the brown bears of the taiga of both Europe and Russia are larger than inland grizzly bears of N. America. I wonder how many big bears are weighed there in N. America. Then again many populations were hunted to extinction in past. Some Yellowstone bears look pretty big and robust and I wouldn´t be surprised if over 300 kg. Hunters there then again seem to take usually only skull measurements leaving weights of many big bears unknown. Here bears are weighed too, meat is eaten by hunters, we don´t have trophy hunting even though skulls are measured too.
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2021 11:31:02 GMT -5
It appears that the brown bears of the taiga of both Europe and Russia are larger than inland grizzly bears of N. America. I wonder how many big bears are weighed there in N. America. Then again many populations were hunted to extinction in past. Some Yellowstone bears look pretty big and robust and I wouldn´t be surprised if over 300 kg. Hunters there then again seem to take usually only skull measurements leaving weights of many big bears unknown. Here bears are weighed too, meat is eaten by hunters, we don´t have trophy hunting even though skulls are measured too. I have read several books on the historic grizzly. They all agree that the Rocky Mountain grizzly ( such as those in Yellowstone ) were among the smaller-bear populations. They were bigger on the prairie and in the Sierra Nevada. And I agree; few hunters bother to weigh the bears they shoot. Not a simple task.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 11:41:54 GMT -5
I wonder how many big bears are weighed there in N. America. Then again many populations were hunted to extinction in past. Some Yellowstone bears look pretty big and robust and I wouldn´t be surprised if over 300 kg. Hunters there then again seem to take usually only skull measurements leaving weights of many big bears unknown. Here bears are weighed too, meat is eaten by hunters, we don´t have trophy hunting even though skulls are measured too. I have read several books on the historic grizzly. They all agree that the Rocky Mountain grizzly ( such as those in Yellowstone ) were among the smaller-bear populations. They were bigger on the prairie and in the Sierra Nevada. And I agree; few hunters bother to weigh the bears they shoot. Not a simple task. So basically Yellowstone grizzly is big if it reaches 300 kg. I´ve heard some people working there estimating some bears to be that big. Here it´s big too, but obviously not yet extraordinary. 400 kg wild bear here could be called such.
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2021 23:39:54 GMT -5
Yes, 300 kg ( 600 pounds ) is a big inland grizzly; 400 kg ( 800 pounds ) is considered an exceptionally huge bear. Average is right about ( 226.80 kg ) 500 pounds for a 10+ year old boar.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 2, 2021 11:39:06 GMT -5
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 2, 2021 12:08:23 GMT -5
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 2, 2021 13:38:18 GMT -5
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 4, 2021 5:21:10 GMT -5
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 4, 2021 5:46:49 GMT -5
Smilodon Populator Template by "Prehistoric Fauna"
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Post by theundertaker45 on Sept 4, 2021 6:30:17 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 4, 2021 8:25:53 GMT -5
Reply 1707. The polar bear looks stronger and more powerful than the smilodon populator which is obvious given the huge weight difference.
The polar bear is also a mature male given its yellowish fur.
Anyway, would you be able to make a visual comparison of a 300kg male Ussuri brown bear and an exceptionally large male Amur tiger?
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Post by brobear on Sept 7, 2021 18:45:18 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 6, 2021 20:57:03 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 10, 2021 19:09:01 GMT -5
Reply #1711 just might be my favorite of all of your comparison pictures. Thumbs up ~
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Post by theundertaker45 on Oct 11, 2021 5:31:12 GMT -5
OldGreenGrolarLike brobear often says; Ursus Ingressus/Spelaeus were the "brawniest" of them all.
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Post by nocapakabl on Oct 12, 2021 13:36:06 GMT -5
Largest prehistoric big cats
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 12, 2021 18:18:15 GMT -5
/\ I guess these are the five heaviest extinct cats.
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