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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 16, 2020 12:03:13 GMT -5
Maybe it does, but no one has ever witnessed it because like you always say, the tiger runs away from the kill site. The Himalayan black bear was lucky that someone witnessed it like Jim Corbett. But there are several accounts from biologists in the RFE that have said that the Ussuri black bear basically always escapes a tiger climbing up a tree. Not the Himalayan black bear though, i am pretty sure its much more aggressive and will fight a tiger. This bear fears nothing.
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Post by brobear on Mar 16, 2020 13:23:16 GMT -5
Let's try to locate some pictures / information on Himalayan bear habitat. Could be that there are fewer trees up in his mountain habitat.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 16, 2020 14:58:50 GMT -5
Habitat: During the summer Himalayan black bears can be found in warmer areas of Nepal, China, Russia, and Tibet as high as 4,000 metres, approaching the treeline. In winter they descend to the lower, tropical forests typically at around 1,500 to 2,000 metres.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 16, 2020 15:02:17 GMT -5
This is a very good account in favour of the Ussuri black bear yes.
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 3:07:05 GMT -5
PETER'S LATEST POST REGARDING BEARS AND TIGERS:
"Adult male brown bears are not hunted, as too risky"
Tigers and bears
Most posters are fascinated by large animals killed by much smaller specialists like big cats, but only few seem to appreciate a tiger able to kill a robust and agile animal like a bear. Strange, as even a smallish adult brown bear is a powerful animal well capable of killing a male tiger.
Some male Amur tigers hunt female brown bears every now and then. It is an ability that isn't really appreciated.
Remember the video of Matkasur and the female sloth bear less than half his weight? I've seen a number of videos of Matkasur from up close. He's a splendid male tiger similar in size to an average male Amur tiger or better. In spite of that, he wasn't able to kill a very modestly-sized female sloth bear, whereas Russian specialists not seldom kill female brown bears twice her weight.
Although he intended to discourage her at first, the engagement turned serious at some stage. The video shows Matkasur wasted a lot of energy struggling an animal he could have convinced in another way. He was, after all, a prime male tiger more than twice her weight.
The video underlines the conclusion that sloth bears are not easy to kill, even when they're only half the weight of a tiger. When the bear is over 220 pounds, a quick bite to the back of the skull isn't going to produce a quick result. Not unless the tiger is a specialist. The tiger often has no other option but to face the bear, meaning the fight can be dangerous. Bears, more robust than tigers, can take a lot of damage. This isn't true for tigers. If there's one thing a professional hunter wants to avoid, it's extra weight. It has a flipside. If the tiger is injured in a fight, he'll pay. If a bear is injured, he'll visit another tiger kill.
These tiger kills, by the way, are the reason Amur tigers learn about bears the hard way. If they survive their first fights, chances are they'll continue in the bear department. When they gain experience, tigers progress from youngsters to adults. Adult females, that is. Adult male brown bears are not hunted, as too risky. Males up to 4-5 years of age, however, have been killed by specialists. In Russia, Amur tigers occasionally hunt male Himalayan black bears, but I've yet to read a reliable report about an adult male Himalayan bear killed by a tiger in India, Nepal, Myanmar and Vietnam.
In some seasons and regions (in the Russian Far East), bears are an important food item. More important than red deer, for example. Some posters argued the results of research confirming bears are an important source of food were a result by smallish samples and the presence of bear specialists, but Miquelle and others recently concluded they could have been wrong regarding tigers and bears in the Russian Far East.
Amur tigers, for obvious reasons, are not as large and heavy as half a century ago. Males averaged about 389 pounds in a document published in 2005. But the table was polluted to a degree and the conditions in the Russian Far East are improving. The number of tigers is increasing and I've seen quite a few recent pictures and videos of large male Amur tigers in very good health. My guess is those interested in tigers and bears could be in for a few surprises in the near future.
wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=105691#pid105691 www.bearsoftheworld.net/himalayan_black_bears.asp The Himalayan black bear (Selenarctos thibetanus laniger) is a rare subspecies of the Asiatic black bear. Himalayan Bear HABITAT Himalayan black bears are scattered across the Himalayas from Bhutan to Pakistan. They are most populous in mountainous areas and jungles. During the summer, Himalayan black bears can be found in warmer areas in Nepal, China, Russia, and Tibet at altitudes of 10,000 to 12,000 feet up near the timberline. For winter, they descend as low as 5,000 to more tropical forests. *Quote from Peter: In Russia, Amur tigers occasionally hunt male Himalayan black bears, but I've yet to read a reliable report about an adult male Himalayan bear killed by a tiger in India, Nepal, Myanmar and Vietnam. *Note: here Peter is talking about Asiatic black bears in general ( considering locations mentioned ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 17, 2020 3:53:49 GMT -5
Yeah perfect. Something goes on in India, and those other locations other than Russia, that adult male Himalayan black bears are not hunted. Peter has never seen a reliable report of this happening. We also have to consider that there are much more Bengal tigers than Amur tigers, so this fact makes it even more incredible.
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 3:56:38 GMT -5
Himalayan Mountains in Pink:
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 3:58:45 GMT -5
Yeah perfect. Something goes on in India, and those other locations other than Russia, that adult male Himalayan black bears are not hunted. Peter has never seen a reliable report of this happening. We also have to consider that there are much more Bengal tigers than Amur tigers, so this fact makes it even more incredible. ...and we both know that Bengal tigers are heavier and stronger than Amur tigers.
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 4:04:31 GMT -5
Tibetan black bears live in Myanmar and Vietnam. Quote: In Russia, Amur tigers occasionally hunt male Himalayan black bears ( Ussuri black bears ). My thoughts, the Amur tiger is a more capable big cat for hunting bears. Because of the fact that he patrols a huge expanse of territory, he is leaner, quicker, and more agile than the bulkier Bengal tiger. A tiger cannot match the strength and girth of a bear, so for the tiger, speed and agility is more valuable. *Note, this does not mean that an Amur is willing to go head-to-head against a large bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 17, 2020 4:05:15 GMT -5
Yeah, thats a great point.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 17, 2020 4:36:07 GMT -5
Actually, Peter really means Himalayan black bears. Both the Himalayan black bear and the Ussuri black bear are found in Russia. Remember that the Himalayan black bear can be found in warmer areas of Russia during the summer.
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 4:37:50 GMT -5
Actually, Peter really means Himalayan black bears. Both the Himalayan black bear and the Ussuri black bear are found in Russia. Remember that the Himalayan black bear can be found in warmer areas of Russia during the summer. The Tibetan black bears live in Myanmar and Vietnam.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 17, 2020 4:51:05 GMT -5
Actually, Peter really means Himalayan black bears. Both the Himalayan black bear and the Ussuri black bear are found in Russia. Remember that the Himalayan black bear can be found in warmer areas of Russia during the summer. The Tibetan black bears live in Myanmar and Vietnam. Yeah, but that is a different subspecies (Ursus Thibetanus Thibetanus)
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 5:03:15 GMT -5
Thus my note: *Note: here Peter is talking about Asiatic black bears in general ( considering locations mentioned ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 17, 2020 5:16:40 GMT -5
What we can resume from all this info and accounts is that adult male Moon bears are hunted by tigers in Russia, but not much anyways. In all other countries, adult male moon bears are basically immune from any predators.
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Post by brobear on Mar 17, 2020 5:39:54 GMT -5
What we can resume from all this info and accounts is that adult male Moon bears are hunted by tigers in Russia, but not much anyways. In all other countries, adult male moon bears are basically immune from any predators. Agreed. Even in the R.F.E., where tigers hunt adult male black bears, they still hold to a size limitation. A full grown Ussuri black bear can weigh well over 500 pounds. We should also take under consideration that bears are considered adult before they reach their full size potential. The largest bear on record killed by a tiger weighed less than some full-grown Asiatic black bear boars. Edit and add: another thought; the wildlife of the Russian tiger is more widespread across a chilling environment, which probably causes the Amur tiger to be more intuned with hunting bears. With the wildlife so thin and widespread, the tiger will likely most often choose the first possible prey animal he locates. This might also explain why a tiger might sometimes take life-threatening risks such as attacking a bear as heavy as himself ( which we have only a very few examples of ).
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Post by brobear on Apr 9, 2020 4:06:05 GMT -5
Posted by Warsaw - quote: Boogey says: "Russian biologists have clearly stated in numerous scientific literature that black bears of ALL SIZES, AGES AND GENDERS are hunted and killed by tigers. " Warsaw answers: Black bears of all ages and genders yes. All sizes?Definitely not.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 9, 2020 5:05:18 GMT -5
Peter said that he has never seen a reliable account of a tiger killing an adult male Himalayan black bear. The other Asiatic black bear subspecies yes.
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Post by brobear on Apr 9, 2020 5:21:57 GMT -5
Quote: The other Asiatic black bear subspecies yes. According to Warsaw; with size limitations.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 9, 2020 5:32:44 GMT -5
Quote: The other Asiatic black bear subspecies yes. According to Warsaw; with size limitations. Thats true. In reality, all adult males of every bear specie is normally avoided by tigers, even adult male sun bears.
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