Thylacoleo carnifex - the "marsupial lion"

[brobear]

Jul 5, 2020 17:29:03 GMT -5 King Kodiak said:

The sloth bear has a slight weight advantage;

Well, remember that we are talking about a weight parity fight. We already know the animal with a weight advantage would win most times. Also, how many animals have sloth bears killed? There are basically zero accounts. Only 1 "supposedly" of it killing a bengal tiger, but not confirmed.

What I'm reading shows that the bear likely has about 50 pounds over the marsupial. But regardless, my vote stands.

[brobear]

Consider also, this marsupial was the largest predator of his time-and-place. Unlike the sloth bear, this ambush predator has never faced a carnivore of similar size. And, being an ambush predator, his willingness to fight might not be what you expect.

[King Kodiak]

What I'm reading shows that the bear likely has about 50 pounds over the marsupial. But regardless, my vote stands.

On average yes, and i believe the sloth bear would win at average weights. But at weight parity i vote for Marsupial but barely.

[brobear]

Jul 5, 2020 18:15:26 GMT -5 King Kodiak said:

What I'm reading shows that the bear likely has about 50 pounds over the marsupial. But regardless, my vote stands.

On average yes, and i believe the sloth bear would win at average weights. But at weight parity i vote for Marsupial but barely.

You might be right; I might be right. We have never witnessed the behavior of this marsupial predator. How strong was he? How quickly could he move? Sure, he was a predator used to killing. But then, so is a leopard yet they avoid sloth bears. With prehistoric animals, there is a huge amount of guesswork. 

[brobear]

Sloth bear vs Masupial lion... some points I would like to make here.

1- All we can do is guess when we know so little about the extinct predator involved; such as his speed, his stamina, and his aggression level, etc.

2- It seems that in just about every bear vs predator face-off scenario that comes up, someone states that bears are not normally sufficient killers; especially the sloth bear. I have stated this before, but I will again. When a bear fights with an adversary, he doesn't care whether he leaves you dead or alive. There have been numerous cases of people attacked and mauled by a bear who lived to tell about their ordeal. A person can get medical help, if he lives long enough. But, when a predator is mauled and left bleeding with multiple broken bones, he is not likely to ever hunt again. My point, the bear doesn't have to outright kill his opponent to win the fight. Even prey animals are sometimes mauled and then eaten alive.

[OldGreenGrolar]

I am thinking now. A sloth bear might be the once with bigger and stronger paws.

[smedz]

260 pound Thylacoleo vs 330 pound Silverback Gorilla 

Due to a portal between the Congo Rainforest and Australia during the Pleistocene, a male Thylacoleo carnifex out of pure curiosity walks through and find himself in the jungle. The portal closes, trapping him in the present. Roaming around his new surroundings he chases a leopard off a carcass, kills a monitor lizard that to him looked like a baby Varanus priscus or Megalania and most of all, he manages to kill a giant forest hog. 

Now he walks past a gorilla troop in an open field, and is charged by the silverback before he has time to run to the trees. 

Thoughts on the outcome? 

[OldGreenGrolar]

The marsupial lion has the strongest jaws of any animal pound to pound. However, the silverback gorilla does have weight advantage, better grappling abilities, and might be stronger overall and has a powerful bite of its own.

[brobear]

The total average weight for a gorilla concluded out of the averages for all four subspecies would therefore be ~365.75lbs (~165.9kg) for males.

www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/behold-thylacoleo-australias-extinct-giant-marsupial-lion

Thylacoleo also had a large claw on its first digit, which it may have used to gut prey. At over 200 pounds (some individuals may have weighed closer to 300 pounds), it must have been an impressive animal.

*So, let's go with 260 pound marsupial lion vs 365 pound silverback gorilla. Of course, no one has ever witnessed the fighting or killing abilities of the thylacoleo. Obviously, he was an ambush predator. Same as with the gorilla vs leopard ( IMO ). I would wager on the gorilla, but keep my wager at a minimum. The predator's weapons could inflict a huge amount of damage and neither predator nor prey might survive. - 50/50.

[brobear]

The Marsupial Lion is the largest meat-eating mammal to have lived in Australia, and one of the largest marsupial carnivores the world has ever seen. It would have hunted animals - including the giant Diprotodon - in the forests, woodlands, shrublands and river valleys, as well as around waterholes. The closest living relatives of this fierce carnivore are the plant-eating Wombats and Koala. Pound for pound, it had the strongest bite of any mammal species living or extinct; a 100 kg (220 lb) individual had a bite comparable to that of a 250 kg (550 lb) African Lion and is thought to have hunted large animals such as diprotodonts and giant kangaroos. It was the most specialised marsupial carnivore to have ever existed and had extremely strong forelimbs, with retractable claws, a trait previously unseen in marsupials. Its strong forelimbs, retracting claws and incredibly powerful jaws mean that it may have been possible for it to climb trees and perhaps to carry carcasses to keep the kill for itself (similar to the leopard today). The Marsupial Lions were 75 cm (29 in) at the shoulder and about 150 cm (75 in) long from head to tail. They averaged 101 to 130 kg (223 to 287 lb), and individuals reaching 124 to 160 kg (273 to 353 lb) were common. They are quite comparable to female lions and tigers in general size. 

[brobear]

The Asiatic Black Bear (Ursus thibetanus), also known as the Tibetan black bear, the Himalayan black bear, or the moon bear, is a medium sized, sharp-clawed, black-coloured bear with a distinctive white or cream "V" marking on its chest. It is a close relative of the American black bear with which it is thought to share a European common ancestor. It grows to approximately 130 to 190 cm (4¼ to 6¼ ft) in length. Males weigh between 110 and 150 kg (240 to 330 lb) and females weigh between 65 to 90 kg (140 to 200 lb). The bear's life span is around 25 years.

[brobear]

300-pound marsupial lion standing face-to-face against a 300-pound moon bear.

The outcome is, of course, pure guesswork. No doubt being an ambush predator, how courageous was the marsupial?

Quote; "Thylacoleo also had an enlarged thumb claw encased in a sheath (as in cats) that may have been used to disembowel its prey."

How long was this killer-claw?

We can't know with any certainty, but I would guess that the bear is smarter, the better grappler, and would have superior stamina. However, even if these assumptions proved to be true, that would not guarantee a victory against the marsupial's weapons and his technique which would take the bear totally by surprise. I would give this one a 50/50. 
 
I will edit and add: The reason I believe the bear to be smarter, there are few animals smarter than a bear.
The reason I believe the bear to be a superior grappler, I doubt that the primitive marsupial was a better grappler than a cat. As ambush predators, from the time they were little "toddlers", like cats, they would have enjoyed "ambush play" while bear cubs play wrestle with each other. Also, a bear has a greater range of motion in his arms than does a cat.
The reason I believe the bear would have superior stamina; ambush predators have no need for great stamina. I will add to this, bears have more experience in face-to-face fights than any ambush predator. However, the marsupial's unusual killing technique just might still give him an edge.