|
Post by brobear on Dec 19, 2019 11:38:35 GMT -5
The American Scimitar-tooth cat, Homotherium serum, was another of the animals I reconstructed for the BBC's series "Wild New World". It always amazes me how different Homotherium was, in overall build and in many anatomical details, from the hyper-robust sabertooth Smilodon.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 23, 2019 0:16:30 GMT -5
"Features of the postcranial elements suggest a powerfully built ambush predator capable of grappling with large prey. The scapula (Figure 5) is larger than that of Smilodon and has a hefty, oval-shaped glenoid fossa, suggesting that the shoulder was capable of moving the forelimbs laterally while wrestling prey. The humerus (Figure 6) is narrower than that of Smilodon but possesses some features that are more robust including a larger and more rounded humeral head, and a taller, broader greater humeral tuberosity. Corresponding muscle attachments indicate a wider range of movement in the shoulder joint. The ulna is shorter than the humerus and shorter than in Smilodon. Features on the articular surfaces of humerus, radius, and ulna suggest that Xenosmilus hodsonae was capable of pronating the forearm to a larger degree than other large cats, which would have facilitated its ability to grasp struggling prey and perhaps even climb trees. The radius and hand bones are also curved in such a way to suggest that the animal could exert great force to pull in its prey closer (Martin et al., 2011).
The hindlimbs of Xenosmilus hodsonae also show several specializations for prey capture. The femur (Figure 7) is relatively shorter and more robust than even those of bears or giant panda. Compared to other large cats, the lesser trochanter of the femur was larger, suggesting that the psoas major muscle, which attaches there, was well developed. A more powerful psoas major muscle would have had kept the hips of the animal steady while it reared up on its hind legs while wrestling prey with its forelimbs. The femur also has a relatively wide patellar groove, which supported a relatively large patella (Figure 8). This indicates that Xenosmilus hodsonae had large quadriceps muscles which stabilized the knee during prey capture. However, the femoral condyles of Xenosmilus hodsonae protrude further posteriorly than other large cats, suggesting that this animal also had more flexible knees, which would have been useful while stooping down to ambush prey. Furthermore, features on the tibia and ankle bones suggest that Xenosmilus hodsonae held its foot in a plantigrade position, similar to bears (Martin et al., 2011)."
This lion sized cat (Xenosmilus) was in many areas more robust than Smilodon and Bears, with a greater grappling ability than other cats.
carnivora.net/xenosmilus-hodsonae-v-grizzly-bear-t3370-s70.html
Credited to Taipan.
Judging from this the Xenismilus is at least more powerful than a smilodon fatalis.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 23, 2019 3:20:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 3, 2020 5:36:23 GMT -5
The Scimitar cat unlike the smilodon populator and the Xenosmilus hodsonae has less robust limbs than both the tiger and the lion.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 3, 2020 9:32:31 GMT -5
The Scimitar cat unlike the smilodon populator and the Xenosmilus hodsonae has less robust limbs than both the tiger and the lion. If this cat was a loner, he would frequently lose his kill to a grizzly.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Feb 26, 2020 7:06:40 GMT -5
Relationships between North and South American Smilodon Middle and Late Pleistocene representatives of the genus Smilodon in South and North America are here assigned to different species. The South American S. populator, which existed east of the Andes, is distinguished from the North American S. fatalis by the following characters: generally larger size, narrower skull with cranial part elongated relative to facial part, high nasals resulting in nearly straight dorsal profile, marked angle between mastoid and occipital plane, more "graviportal" limb bones, and extremely massive metapodials. Most differences are shown to arise from changes in allometric growth pattern; the difference is on a par with that between other valid and accepted species of carnivores. The detection of sexual dimorphism, the proper use of the ratio diagram, and subspecific versus specific differentiation are discussed. The Smilodon of the west coast region in South America (Peru, Ecuador) is S. fatalis, presumably a member of the Rancholabrean carnivore fauna that entered western South America in the Late Pleistocene. www.jstor.org/stable/4523312?seq=1
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2020 18:53:19 GMT -5
SMiLODON:
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 1, 2020 18:55:08 GMT -5
Surprisingly the Xenosmilus hodsonae is my favourite cat.
|
|
|
Post by theundertaker45 on Apr 13, 2020 9:33:14 GMT -5
There are three major subspecies of Smilodon:
-Smilodon populator: max. size of 230cm in length, 120cm at the shoulders and a weight of 400-450kg, -Smilodon fatalis: max. size of 220cm in length, 110cm at the shoulders and a weight of 250kg -Smilodon gracilis : max size of 200cm in length, 75cm at the shoulders and a weight of 150kg
I would personally divide it into groups to make some interesting matchups:
-Smilodon populator: best matchups would be an Alaskan coastal grizzly bear, Kamchatka brown bear, Kodiak bear and a polar bear. -Smilodon fatalis: best matchups would be an East Siberian brown bear, Eurasian brown bear, inland grizzly bear and an Ussuri brown bear. -Smilodon gracilis: best matchups would be an American black bear, Asian black bear, giant panda, sloth bear and a spectacled bear.
The sun bear just is a viable prey option for the much larger and therefore stronger felids imo.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2020 12:21:57 GMT -5
Smilodon gracilis - 150 kilograms is equal to 330.69 pounds - roughly the size of a Sumatran tiger ( if I'm not mistaken ). Smilodon fatalis - At roughly 500 pounds a liitle heavier than a Bengal tiger. Smilodon populator - 425 kg is equal to 937 pounds - as heavy as an Alaskan peninsula brown bear ( huge ).
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 13, 2020 18:33:17 GMT -5
Remember that is the normal max weight though, not the average.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 13, 2020 18:43:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by smedz on Apr 13, 2020 19:13:26 GMT -5
Smilodon gracilis - 150 kilograms is equal to 330.69 pounds - roughly the size of a Sumatran tiger ( if I'm not mistaken ). Smilodon fatalis - At roughly 500 pounds a liitle heavier than a Bengal tiger. Smilodon populator - 425 kg is equal to 937 pounds - as heavy as an Alaskan peninsula brown bear ( huge ). Actually brobear, that specimen was 960 pounds, 520 pounds heavier than a typical Bengal Tiger.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 14, 2020 2:59:01 GMT -5
-Smilodon populator: max. size of 230cm in length, 120cm at the shoulders and a weight of 400-450kg, / 425 kg = 936.96 pounds. -Smilodon fatalis: max. size of 220cm in length, 110cm at the shoulders and a weight of 250kg / 551.16 pounds. -Smilodon gracilis : max size of 200cm in length, 75cm at the shoulders and a weight of 150kg / 330.69 pounds. S. populator vs Kodiak bear, polar bear, Alaskan peninsula brown bear, or Kamchatka bear - I wager on the bears. S. fatalis vs Siberian brown bear, European brown bear, Mountain grizzly, or Ussuri brown bear - I wager on the bears. S. gracilis vs American black bear or Asiatic black bear - I wager on the bear. ( skeptical about sloth bear, Andean bear, or giant panda's ability to kill ).
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 15, 2020 11:00:46 GMT -5
The male Alaskan coastal grizzly bear, Kamchatka brown bear, Kodiak bear and a polar bear will beat a smilodon populator due to weight advantage alone.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 16, 2020 12:29:41 GMT -5
The Pleistocene grizzly, according to several elite posters I know, believe averaged roughly 700-pounds. This is merely an estimate as no huge amount of fossils have been recovered. If so, I would dare say that the grizzly's relationship with Smilodon fatalis would depend on whether the saber-toothed cat was a loner or a group hunter. If a loner, then this relationship would probably be little different from the Amur tiger / black grizzly relationship. If the saber-toothed cat lived in prides like lions, then the bear would have avoided the saber-toothed cats. ( IMHO ).
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 16, 2020 17:39:51 GMT -5
The Pleistocene grizzly bear still looks stronger judging from the picture. True a grizzly would avoid a smilodon populator which lives in prides but generally a monster size bear would be avoided as no social predator wants to risk losing members which are essential in defending the territory from other prides.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 29, 2020 8:07:25 GMT -5
From NY Times, March 16, 2020 By Joshua Sokol Published March 14, 2020 Updated March 16, 2020 When the curator mentioned a huge saber-toothed tiger skull stored behind the scenes of the National Museum of Natural History in Montevideo, Uruguay, Aldo Manzuetti had to see for himself. The skull belonged to Smilodon populator. Extinct for about 10,000 years, the heavily muscled species once Hulk-smashed its way through South American fauna in the Pleistocene. To picture a normal individual, start with an African lion. Then double its size and add giant fangs. But this one wasn’t normal. The skull was 16 inches long, making previous large specimens from the species look small. “I thought I was doing something wrong,” said Mr. Manzuetti, a doctoral student in paleontology at Uruguay’s University of the Republic. He was using the head to infer the likely size of the animal’s body. “I checked the results a lot of times, and only after doing that I realized I hadn’t made any mistakes.” His analysis showed the skull sat atop a beast that likely tipped the scales at around 960 pounds. The specimen’s existence, he and colleagues reported earlier this month in the journal Alcheringa, suggests that the largest saber-toothed tigers might have been able to take down giant plant-eaters, heavy as pickup trucks, that researchers had thought were untouchable. Ricardo Praderi, an amateur collector, first dug up the prehistoric predator’s skull in September 1989 in southern Uruguay. The site had otherwise yielded only the fossils of herbivores. He then donated it to the archives of the national museum, Mr. Manzuetti said. “I would love to find something like that,” said Margaret Lewis, a paleontologist at Stockton University in New Jersey who did not participate in the research. Scientists knew South America was haunted by the ghosts of vanished Pleistocene carnivores. Beyond Smilodon populator, known since 1842 from fossils in a Brazilian cave, the continent also hosted another smaller Smilodon species, as well as jaguars, lions and Arctotherium, the biggest bear ever known. The saber-tooths were cats, not tigers, although the more fearsome name has stuck in many settings. The first humans to settle the continent, God help them, arrived at around the same time. But the top tier of possible prey — armored armadillos comparable to Volkswagens, lumbering mastodons, the 12-foot-tall ground sloth Megatherium — would have challenged even the fiercest hunter.“We’ve always wondered: Who could take down a giant ground sloth?” said Kevin Seymour, a paleontologist at Toronto’s Royal Ontario Museum who reviewed the research. The new skull suggests an answer. “If Smilodon is getting this big, there’s a potential for it to be taking down these giant adult herbivores,” Dr. Seymour said. Still, whether it actually did depends on a few factors. Big cats alive today can’t bring down anything too far beyond their own size, because they kill by strangling or breaking the necks of their victims. That forces them to wrestle up close and dodge flailing limbs and hooves. But paleontologists believe Smilodon may have used more elegant weapons — its signature sabers — to slash a vulnerable area. Then it could step back and wait in safety, putting larger prey on the menu. If Smilodon hunted in teams, that would also have allowed it to hunt much larger animals. But the evidence it worked in packs is still equivocal, Dr. Seymour said. Mr. Manzuetti’s team also pointed out damage on the front of the skull that could suggest an attack from a saber-bearing rival. “If that is true, that is a fascinating finding,” Dr. Lewis said. But what stood out to her most was the sheer size. “It’s a beautiful thing to look at,” she said. “I just keep thinking of the power, and the potential things that this animal could have been doing out there in the ecosystem.”
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 29, 2020 8:58:14 GMT -5
From the post above:
Woah what a statement for cat fans.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 23, 2020 4:16:53 GMT -5
www.softschools.com/facts/extinct_animals/saber_toothed_tiger_facts/2505/ Quote: Saber-toothed tiger had very thick front legs that were used to immobilize the prey and to prevent it to fight back and potentially break its precious, but brittle canine teeth. Saber-toothed tiger used canine teeth to kill its prey by slicing the jugular vein and windpipe. In a fight with a brown bear, considering that saber-toothed cats kill by slicing the throat of their prey, Smilodon would discover that killing large herbivores and fighting against a grizzly are two completely different scenarios. A big herbivore, with four sets of hoofs planted firmly on the ground, cannot grapple. But, against a grizzly, the big saber-toothed cat would discover that here is a beast that is as strong or stronger than himself and one who knows how to wrestle. While the cat is trying to find an opening to the bear's throat, the bear is meanwhile breaking bones and tearing flesh.
|
|