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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 6, 2019 6:07:16 GMT -5
Not exactly “Kodiak” bears but brown bears nontheless. Here we have the famous video shot by Timothy Treadwell at Katmai national park of two giant Alaska peninsula brown bears (Ursus arctos horribilis), formerly (Ursus arctos gyas) fighting. both probably from 800 to 1000 lbs. But the largest Smilodons could overlap at about 850 lbs. now imagine if one of those two was a Smilodon instead of a bear? Take a look at these grappling skills and the amount of power used. Yeah, the cat is going down to the dirt and crushed. Simple as this. THE BEST OF THE LAND.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 6, 2019 6:48:30 GMT -5
Even a polar bear's fighting skills will be too much for a smilodon populator. If a polar bear can overpower a smilodon populator, more so can a Kodiak bear do it.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 6, 2019 8:19:58 GMT -5
Even a polar bear's fighting skills will be too much for a smilodon populator. If a polar bear can overpower a smilodon populator, more so can a Kodiak bear do it. Yeah definitely. I agree.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 19:58:51 GMT -5
The bear most likely wins due to (slight) size advantage. I'd give it an edge at parity too, due to being more durable, having more stamina, and not having fragile teeth
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Post by tom on Sept 7, 2019 10:53:50 GMT -5
Nice to see ya back grizzlyfan.
Part of the reason why a large Brown Bear would dominate such a confrontation IMO is the size factor, but more importantly for me is the fighting style. As you can plainly see by video that Kodiak posted above, Bears are the Pro wrestlers of the animal world. You combine the upper body strength of a Brown Bear with his ability to grapple and use his size and weight for leverage to his advantage is one reason why a Smilodon or any large Cat is at a decided disadvantage in a head to head encounter. Big Cats, Smilodon included must overpower their opponent quickly and either make the leathal bite as was the case for Smilodon or like Modern day Lions where they make a bite to the throat or cover their preys mouth, immobilize then suffocate their victim. Neither method would be easy if possible on a large Brown bear who he himself with his 4 inch claws and large canines would inflict his own serious damage at the same time preventing the big Cats from doing what they do best.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 10, 2019 8:21:45 GMT -5
This tiger named Misha kills adult brown bears which weigh nearly as much as he does. Once again, female kodiak bears and polar bears overlap in weight with the smilodon populator.
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Post by tom on Sept 10, 2019 9:11:09 GMT -5
That article only references two adult brown bears of which were females smaller than he. The rest of the kills then must have been sub adult or cubs. Nowhere is there a mention of adult male brown bears being killed and probably because there weren't any.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 10, 2019 14:09:40 GMT -5
This tiger named Misha kills adult brown bears which weigh nearly as much as he does. Once again, female kodiak bears and polar bears overlap in weight with the smilodon populator. Misha, aka Dale, weighted 445 lbs. he killed 4 brown bears. 2 were adult females. One was the largest brown bear confirmed killed by a tiger, a 440 lb female brown bear killed in a 20 minute battle. The tiger got hurt in that fight.
As for female Kodiak or polar bears, yes they overlap in weight with adult male Smilodons at about 650 lbs. and im my opinion, it would be a good fight, but the smilodon should beat the females at least 6/10 times.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 10, 2019 14:11:42 GMT -5
Am not Tom, but he would not mind, there is no problem. Go right ahead and do it if you want.
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Post by tom on Sept 11, 2019 7:45:05 GMT -5
Grizzly Bear against 5-6 spotted Hyenas is going to be short work for the Grizzly I'm afraid.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 11, 2019 8:05:46 GMT -5
/\ The Kodiak bear would likely displace the spotted hyena the same way a grizzly bear displaced wolf packs. If a male lion can displace a pack of hyenas, I am sure a larger and more powerful Kodiak bear can do better.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 27, 2019 21:12:56 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 5, 2019 12:58:42 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 26, 2019 7:15:24 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 26, 2019 7:19:07 GMT -5
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4881349/ Ancient mitochondrial DNA reveals convergent evolution of giant short-faced bears (Tremarctinae) in North and South America. The Tremarctinae are a subfamily of bears endemic to the New World, including two of the largest terrestrial mammalian carnivores that have ever lived: the giant, short-faced bears Arctodus simus from North America and Arctotherium angustidens from South America (greater than or equal to 1000 kg). Arctotherium angustidens became extinct during the Early Pleistocene, whereas Arctodus simus went extinct at the very end of the Pleistocene. The only living tremarctine is the spectacled bear (Tremarctos ornatus), a largely herbivorous bear that is today only found in South America. The relationships among the spectacled bears (Tremarctos), South American short-faced bears (Arctotherium) and North American short-faced bears (Arctodus) remain uncertain. In this study, we sequenced a mitochondrial genome from an Arctotherium femur preserved in a Chilean cave. Our molecular phylogenetic analyses revealed that the South American short-faced bears were more closely related to the extant South American spectacled bear than to the North American short-faced bears. This result suggests striking convergent evolution of giant forms in the two groups of short-faced bears (Arctodus and Arctotherium), potentially as an adaptation to dominate competition for megafaunal carcasses.
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Post by brobear on Oct 26, 2019 9:07:43 GMT -5
Considering typical-sized animals, the big cat species has never existed that a mature male grizzly cannot over-power. A grizzly can displace any big cat, one-on-one, from its kill. This includes the saber-toothed species. Bears are smart animals. It is not likely ( imo ) that a grizzly would challenge more than one big cat over a carcass.
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Post by brobear on Oct 27, 2019 6:23:06 GMT -5
IF ( the big if ) the saber-toothed cats hunted in prides which is the common belief, then they were a menace even to a full-grown grizzly boar. The fact that so many Smilodon remains have been collected from the tar pits is not definite proof of them being social big cats. The smell of so many dead and dying herbivores would have attracted them from miles around. Likewise, the fact that far fewer atrox remains have been collected does not prove that they were not social big cats. Panthera atrox had the biggest brain of any cat ever. Very little bear bones have been found in the La Brea tar pits also. My conclusion: like the bears, perhaps atrox was smart enough to observe and comprehend the danger. Perhaps the smell of tar ( a strong odor ) made them suspicious to begin with. In any case, big cats which hunt in prides were a danger to even a big boar grizzly. Whether or not they would prey on a mature male grizzly is uncertain. It is my conclusion ( from observation ) that a lion will not attack any animal while with his pride that he will not attack when alone. Question: would any big cat choose a mature male grizzly as potential prey? Not so the Amur tiger.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 27, 2019 8:02:02 GMT -5
IF ( the big if ) the saber-toothed cats hunted in prides which is the common belief, then they were a menace even to a full-grown grizzly boar. The fact that so many Smilodon remains have been collected from the tar pits is not definite proof of them being social big cats. The smell of so many dead and dying herbivores would have attracted them from miles around. Likewise, the fact that far fewer atrox remains have been collected does not prove that they were not social big cats. Panthera atrox had the biggest brain of any cat ever. Very little bear bones have been found in the La Brea tar pits also. My conclusion: like the bears, perhaps atrox was smart enough to observe and comprehend the danger. Perhaps the smell of tar ( a strong odor ) made them suspicious to begin with. In any case, big cats which hunt in prides were a danger to even a big boar grizzly. Whether or not they would prey on a mature male grizzly is uncertain. It is my conclusion ( from observation ) that a lion will not attack any animal while with his pride that he will not attack when alone. Question: would any big cat choose a mature male grizzly as potential prey? Not so the Amur tiger. I agree with all this except the lion pride part. There are videos of lion prides attacking full grown buffaloes, Jiraffes, elephants, even a rhino (stuck in the mud). Sure as hell a pride of lions (or a few Saber-toothed cats together) would attack any kind of bear.
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Post by brobear on Oct 27, 2019 8:09:21 GMT -5
A lone hungry lion will attempt an attack on a full-grown buffalo, a giraffe, a juvenile elephant, or a rhinoceros helpless in the mud ( imo ). A tiger will do these things. But the tiger will not ambush a full-grown boar grizzly. A lion will not choose a full-grown rhinoceros on his feet, a mature elephant, or a bull hippopotamus.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 27, 2019 8:20:56 GMT -5
There are plenty of accounts and reports of lone tigers attacking (mostly by ambush), gaur (even some adult males), water Buffaloes, rhinos, and elephants (some adults), but there are only 3 documented accounts in history of Amur tigers attacking adult male brown bears, cases which are not confirmed. So what does this mean? THE ANIMAL THAT TIGERS AVOID AND FEAR MOST IN THIS WORLD IS THE ADULT MALE BROWN BEAR.
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