|
Post by brobear on Dec 27, 2020 1:45:37 GMT -5
No sources; online address? I screenshot them from a Facebook website. Yeah; I found them there this morning also.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2020 8:30:15 GMT -5
Smilodon Populator in the snow by Alessandro Mastronardi - WORLD OF PREHISTORIC CREATURES
|
|
|
Post by tom on Dec 29, 2020 14:04:59 GMT -5
KODIAK BEAR VS SMILODON POPULATOR: a very famous battle in other forums. Now lets take a look at the advantages and disadvantages. Kodiak your list of advantages or disadvantages clearly support the Kodiak in all categories except speed and agility. To me this is kind of a pointless comparison as a Kodiak Bear would be a mismatch for any large Cat past or present. To me there's not much to debate and I find it ridiculous that people actually would debate this face-off.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2020 14:35:06 GMT -5
My rule-of-thumb is very simplistic; but pretty accurate ( IMO ). There are smaller bear species, sun bear being the smallest. But at average weights, Andean bear, moon bear, black bear, and sloth bear are smaller than a lion or a tiger. So, in a face-off ( to the death ) the big cat wins. Any fight between a big cat and a bear at weight-parity ( which is rare ) such as a 250-pound jaguar vs 250-pound Andean bear; I give it a 50/50. But when it comes to brown bears, polar bear, or the extinct cave bears and short-faced bears... bear takes the trophy. Any big cat against one of these is a mismatch.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 29, 2020 15:23:55 GMT -5
tom Absolutely right Tom. At average weights its a mismatch. Thing is at other forums, there are feline loving nerds that think these 2 are basically the same weight and that the Smilodon would win. (The main spreader of this idea was in this forum a short time ago and was banned). Obviously, he did not learn much from here nor did i expect him to learn as this is how debates work, everyone has already a set idea in their head and wont change that idea no matter what you show or tell him.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Dec 29, 2020 16:23:09 GMT -5
Can you tell me this. The average weight of a Smilodon Populator obviously is an estimate. How accurate do you think those are based on just skeletal remains and what would be the margin for error? By the way what is the average weight?
I guess what I'm getting at is how do they know what the average is? How many skeletal remains must be analyzed to determine such an average weight. With Extant big Cats or Bears for that matter, it's much easier to determine an average weight. You could have quite a variance in sizes if only a minimal sampling of fossil remains have been analyzed.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 29, 2020 16:35:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by tom on Dec 29, 2020 18:31:55 GMT -5
The abstract from your link:
ok so it would seem their original methods were based upon variables found on extant felids. I guess I don't quite understand all the lingo used here, but in simple terms the skeletal remains were compared to extant felids to estimate mass. I suspect this to be the most accurate method considering what they have. Large specimens of Smilodon may have exceeded 400 kg or 881 pounds. Body mass range 220-360 kg or 487 lbs to 793 lbs with a 640 lb. midrange.
My only question on these methods is the sampling size. We could sample 3 Kodiak Bears for an average estimate. But how accurate would that be in reality. Would 10 samples be more accurate? My belief is the higher the sampling the more accurate the data. But you can only use what you have. This is the best we have to go on.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 29, 2020 18:56:32 GMT -5
Of course Tom, the larger the sample size the more accurate it would be, this is obvious. Unfortunately, most studies have a very limited sample size, like 3 specimens, or 5, 10, 20, but not much more. Sometimes we just have to go with what we have.
Anyhow, as you saw yourself from the source above, the Populator averages 640 lbs, the Kodiak bear has a 440 lb weight advantage just at averages. Complete mismatch.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 29, 2020 19:10:18 GMT -5
Check-out the artwork, Reply #233. Not even Smilodon populator had the girth of a bear. Cats are ( and were ) ambush predators. They cannot afford extra baggage; extra pounds. A big cat needs stealth, short-distance speed, then the tools of the trade along with an eons-old, fool-proof, killing strategy. Were the saber-toothed cats social predators? Among the experts there is a huge amount of disagreement; as much on one side as the other. ( IMO ) - No, they were loners.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 29, 2020 19:32:18 GMT -5
Exactly brobear. And you know what the funny thing is? The cat fans love to argue for weight for their favorite cats, they love to dream of 700 lb tigers and 1000 lb Smilodons, (even though for cats in general more weight is bad although not so much for the Populator as its morphology was the most "bear-like" so they can afford to have more weight than other cats), yet they love to criticize when a bear has alot of weight. Isn't that the funniest thing you ever saw?
Reply #233: that Smilodon Populator looks skinny, lmao.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 8, 2021 5:43:52 GMT -5
Everyone, what is the largest bear a smilodon populator can defeat (50/50 or more) in your opinions?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 8, 2021 6:26:29 GMT -5
Everyone, what is the largest bear a smilodon populator can defeat (50/50 or more) in your opinions? In a fantasy face-off any full-grown male brown bear of his size-range such as the Ussuri or Hokkaido brown bear ( 50/50 ).
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Jan 8, 2021 7:36:11 GMT -5
Everyone, what is the largest bear a smilodon populator can defeat (50/50 or more) in your opinions? Like brobear just said, everything from the Ussuri brown bear and downwards.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 8, 2021 8:01:27 GMT -5
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/01/210107164744.htm Mysterious family life of notorious saber-toothed tiger "The social lives of these iconic predators have been mysterious, in part because their concentration in tar seeps leaves so much room for interpretation" says Dr. Kevin Seymour, Assistant Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology at the ROM and a co-author of this study, "This historic assemblage of sabre-cat fossils from Ecuador was formed in a different way, allowing us to determine the two juveniles likely lived, and died, together -- and were therefore probably siblings" *There has been no hard evidence to support the "Smilodon pride-life theory".
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 8, 2021 8:05:41 GMT -5
I guess smilodons are nowhere near as social as the African lions.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 8, 2021 8:11:57 GMT -5
I guess smilodons are nowhere near as social as the African lions. I don't believe they were any more social than tigers. However, the truth is unknown. Among the experts, there are as many on one side as on the other.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Jan 8, 2021 8:29:08 GMT -5
brobear, check the link you posted at reply #246, its the wrong one.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 8, 2021 9:00:42 GMT -5
brobear , check the link you posted at reply #246, its the wrong one. Thankx; yeah, I hate it when this mouse/computer - whatever is acting-up, posts an old copy thats already been posted rather than a fresh copy.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 14, 2021 21:51:42 GMT -5
|
|