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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 10, 2020 10:23:55 GMT -5
Yeah, and sub adult male polars also get much larger than extant big cats. We would have to analyze that. According to Peter, a Siberian tiger shows more respect towards a male sub adult Ussuri brown bear than an adult female brown bear. Therefore, a sub adult male polar bear would defeat any extant big cat while a male polar bear would beat all big cats (both extinct and extant).
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 10, 2020 10:29:59 GMT -5
Well yeah, the males should always get more respect. But do you have the link where Peter said that? I would like to read the whole context.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 10, 2020 10:34:27 GMT -5
/\ I think you informed me about it last year on another thread. You know Peter’s post better than me.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 10, 2020 10:43:56 GMT -5
/\ I think you informed me about it last year on another thread. You know Peter’s post better than me. Oh ok. Just dont remember that one. I will have to search it.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 20, 2020 11:06:22 GMT -5
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 20, 2020 12:20:09 GMT -5
Reply #184
From that same link:
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 20, 2020 13:03:33 GMT -5
Captive instances aside, if for whatever reason Polar bears and Amur tigers interacted, similar to brown bears they may avoid them. Large males especially. Similar to brown bear vs tiger, I think a polar bear would win much more often than not. I can however see some bold tigers seeing this new bear like creature for food, and may get a few kills via ambush.
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 20, 2020 13:15:58 GMT -5
Kinda just came to me. There are rare instances of grizzly bears killing and eating tigers, but after killing them in a fight rather than hunting and killing them. Polar bears are hypercarnivores and are actively starving due to habitat loss. I suspect that if a decent sized hungry polar bear came across a tiger, it would probably try to kill and consume it. Starved polar bears have been seen trying to kill large walruses out of desperation and are also one of the few animals that will seek out humans for food (without having to be old, sick, or injured like with other animals that become maneaters).
Polar bears at this point will take whatever they can take. A smaller animal like a tiger may find itself fighting a hypercarnivorous bear with the intention on killing and devouring it. This wouldn't be a simple omnivorous brown bear that just wants to be left alone and may just fight it off. This would be a bear acting as a legit predator. Just my hypothesis though.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 20, 2020 13:30:35 GMT -5
This would be much different than brown bears/tigers interactions. The Ussuri brown bear is only a part time hunter, it only eats 20% of meat at max. They dont go purposely hunting tigers. But polar bears are full time hunters and carnivores, this means adult male polar bears would actually hunt down tigers to eat them. And of course, the much larger predator will always prevail vs the much smaller predator.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 21, 2020 0:53:06 GMT -5
Captive instances aside, if for whatever reason Polar bears and Amur tigers interacted, similar to brown bears they may avoid them. Large males especially. Similar to brown bear vs tiger, I think a polar bear would win much more often than not. I can however see some bold tigers seeing this new bear like creature for food, and may get a few kills via ambush. Not at all similar, polar bears find it hard to find food compared to brown bears. Therefore, a male polar bear would most likely kill or attempt to kill a Siberian Tiger should they share the same habitat. Even a female polar bear is too big for any extant tigers.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 21, 2020 7:46:09 GMT -5
That is another reason why an Arctic fox follows a polar bear closely yet keeps a safe distance, of it gets too close, it would readily become a meal.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 21, 2020 10:47:03 GMT -5
Ok first of all, if these 2 animals were going to be in the same habitat, it would have to be in the Artic circle as we cant expect to have polar bears nowhere inland. Secondly, yes, Siberian tigers live in the cold, if i remember correctly, in the RFE, it goes down to -30 or -40 at its coldest, but that is still a long long way from the -60 of the Artic at its coldest peaks, so i doubt a Siberian tiger can withstand that kind of cold. Thirdly, there are no trees in the frozen artic, Tigers rely heavily on trees and large vegetation to make their ambush. Damn, it looks to me like a tiger wont last long in the Artic.
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Post by malikc6 on Sept 21, 2020 13:07:20 GMT -5
Do you guys think a Ussuri Brown Bear could survive in the Artic if it somehow managed to get a lot of food?
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 21, 2020 13:24:12 GMT -5
Do you guys think a Ussuri Brown Bear could survive in the Artic if it somehow managed to get a lot of food? Well, Barren ground grizzlies survive in the Artic Canada, but if you mean that if an Ussuri brown bear would survive in the polar bear's habitat, the actual Artic circle, than i would think not. Polar bears are the only bear species adapted to survive that cold, down to -60 at its coldest. That is precisely why the brown bears stranded and isolated on the Artic became polar bears.
www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/arctic-bears-how-grizzlies-evolved-into-polar-bears/777/
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Post by brobear on Sept 22, 2020 1:14:51 GMT -5
This did not happen within a few days, weeks, months, or even years. The brown bears had to be gradually spreading northward. Remember that there were more animals living that were adapted to the arctic tundra environment. At some point, there were a group of brown bears learning to hunt seals, who became stranded by a wall of ice. Once, stranded, and cut-off from breeding with other brown bears ( a long-term separation ) these arctic bear began to change physically to meet their new environment. You cannot draw an accurate family tree of the brown bears without the polar bear having his place. ( point - I have yet to find such a family tree drawn ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 22, 2020 1:49:08 GMT -5
Correct, this evolution happened over thousands of years:
Over thousands of years, this population of bears underwent further evolutionary change, adapting even more specialized traits for surviving the harsh polar environment. When life in the North demanded teeth better shaped for ripping apart seals than munching berries, the polar bear’s molar teeth changed significantly from those of the brown bear. The bears also grew white fur, which camouflaged them in their snow-covered surroundings and gave them a hunting advantage. Scientists believe that at first these bears scavenged seal carcasses that had washed ashore, and gradually began to hunt the seals by waiting at the water’s edge as the seals surfaced to breathe. This is believed to be an important step in the evolution of a new subspecies of bear — Ursus maritimus or the polar bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2020 1:49:23 GMT -5
You know what Brobear. I actually agree with you. That is why there is no way the tyrant polar bear can look like a polar bear - it looks more like a brown bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 22, 2020 1:51:06 GMT -5
I use to think the polar bear had higher carnassial pressure than the brown bear, which I correct myself on this. Yet I still think the polar bear’s teeth overall are better for slicing thick hide and blubber.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 23, 2020 18:12:18 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 23, 2020 22:39:18 GMT -5
Not a surprise really, the polar bear is much larger and stronger than a tiger. That is why a grizzly would not press on the attack if the polar bear stands it’s ground and ignores the smaller brownie.
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