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Post by brobear on Jul 14, 2024 17:12:43 GMT -5
When a field biologist believes that a full-grown male brown bear has been killed by a tiger, how should he confirm the incident?
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I have found that most tiger fans, including those self-proclaimed elite fake-professors, always post a page-length conglomeration covering multiple topics. Most of that monstrosity of a post is meaningless dribble. They do this for several reasons:
(1) It makes a reply much more difficult.
(2) They believe that their post appears more sophisticated.
(3) On the topic of "tiger killing full-grown male brown bear", a fanboy will fill a lengthy post with stories of tigers killing adolescent brown bears, female brown bears, moon bears, and sloth bears - having nothing to do with the topic.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 2:13:17 GMT -5
Testing scientific ideas undsci.berkeley.edu/understanding-science-101/how-science-works/testing-scientific-ideas/ Home → Understanding Science 101 → How science works → Testing scientific ideas Testing scientific ideas Illustration showing how testing ideas goes from gathering data to interpreting data. Testing hypotheses and theories is at the core of the process of science. Any aspect of the natural world could be explained in many different ways. It is the job of science to collect all those plausible explanations and to use scientific testing to filter through them, retaining ideas that are supported by the evidence and discarding the others. You can think of scientific testing as occurring in two logical steps: (1) if the idea is correct, what would we expect to see, and (2) does that expectation match what we actually observe? Ideas are supported when actual observations (i.e., results) match expected observations and are contradicted when they do not match. Note that scientists also reason out what they might observe if their hypothesis were NOT correct (or if a different hypothesis were correct) and compare those expectations to their observations. Scientists strive to evaluate their hypotheses from all angles, seeking out both supporting and refuting evidence.  |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 2:18:23 GMT -5
From "Mammals of the Soviet Union By Vladimir Georgievich Geptner, A. A. Nasimovich, Andreĭ Grigorʹevich" "Early in May, 1951 on the bank of Tatibe River (Iman tributary), a bear was found(body lengh 158 cm, weight 170kg), which had obviously been mauled by tigress" Presuming tigress weigh anywhere between 130-150Kg, It managed to kill 170 Kg Bear. This tells Tigers are capable of killing bears larger than itself. ____________________________________________________ As the story goes (popular among tiger fanboys) a tigress killed a large male brown bear - heavier than herself. The May, 1951 incident on the bank of Tatibe River, where a tigress killed a male adolescent brown bear. Note that nether the tigress nor the bear were actually measured and weighed. The weight of the fat adolescent bear (carcass) was estimated. The tigress was never even seen. Point blank... this is simply another meaningless story over-told and exaggerated by tiger fanboys.  The 1951 Tatibe River tigress |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 2:21:41 GMT -5
The thing that strikes me as strange about M20/T-20/Dale/Dima/Misha ( besides having a host of names ) is the fact that this huge male tiger did nothing out of the ordinary and yet he has been so celebrated by the tiger's fanbase. What did Dale do? Answer: Dale ambushed and killed female brown bears smaller than himself and (more often) adolescent bears - the usual tiger prey choices. About M20/T-20/Dale/Dima/Misha killing a large bear, The bears killed by Dale were never weighed. The second of the two adult female brown bears killed by Dale was described as "a large bear" which really has no meaning. Her weight was estimated to be from 330 to 440 pounds. Again, we could average that weight out to 385 pounds. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 2:39:22 GMT -5
*Show me the biologists report, which I'm sure that a professional like Alexander Batalov filed, explaining how he knows that Ochkarik, the tiger killed Chlamida, the bear. IF Batalov did not file a report, then this scenario is not a confirmed incident. Ochkarik and Chlamida (1) No kill site was found. (2) No bear remains were found. (3) No battle wounds observed on the tiger. (4) No evidence of any kind found to substantiate the claim. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 2:55:48 GMT -5
Odyr and Misha Newspaper headlines: Brutal fight to the death: Amur tiger killed and ate a brown bear in a nature reserve near Khabarovsk November 29, 2022 1:08 am Newspapers are not a good source for accurate information. The big male tiger killed an adolescent 3 year old brown bear. Sensationalism sells newspapers.  |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 3:01:27 GMT -5
Because it was a small bear. (Not my email) Q：Здравствуйте, я недавно слышал, что в заповеднике была битва тигра с медведем У вас есть больше информации об этом медведе? Reserve：Здравствуйте!Медведя звали Миша, кличка «Косолапый», возраст примерно 3 года Подвид бурый. В ходе сражения тигр не пострадал. Начальник отдела охраны Милежик М.П. С Уважением, филиал Большехехцирский ФГ БУ"Заповедное Приамурье' Translation: Q：Hello, I heard recently that there was a tiger-bear fight in the reserve Do you have any more information about this bear? Reserve： Hello, the bear's name was Misha, and he was about 3 years old. The tiger wasn't hurt in the battle. M.P. Milezhik, Head of Protection Department. Sincerely yours, Bolshekhetsirskiy branch of the Federal Wildlife Refuge of the Priamur'e Nature Conservation Area. ibb.co/VJrpVm4This also makes me agree with Warsaw’s opinion and Kolchin was right. Along with Ocharik (not confirmed if he actually killed him). And Mazak (Jankowski didn’t mention signs of a fight, and just found a tiger feasting on a bear carcass, and surprisingly he never even said the bears species). That’s all I know of tiger and adult male brown bears. We have known cases of tigers (adult males) dying to injured inflicted by brown bears (Bromlei). And Boris the adult male tiger almost died to a brown bear. So it’s a three year old bear. And of course a “certain poster” saw this and called it BS because reports “said it’s 18cm so it’s wrong” This email was answered to by Milezhik, who is in-charge of the reserve and the federal branch of the wildlife refuge (animal protection). I see no reason to not trust him. Why would they lie? The bear killed was named ‘Misha’ and was about three years old. Milezhik would know this due to monitoring the animals in the reserve. Actually, the bear carcass was half-eaten, and I don’t see the bear’s front paw, so maybe the tiger ate it. They measured this I’m pretty sure ibb.co/qNrR4WM which looks like a huge bear, but not only that, it looks like a fresh one. And the bear carcass is very small, and definitely doesn’t correspond with that footprint. But here’s the thing tho, they said front paw so maybe they measured the bear carcass’s front paw, but they would have to flip it over. Even in the video, everyone in the comment section is referring to the bear as ‘Misha’ The paw size is measured incorrectly, and Kolchin said this, which is why it says 18cm. I may be stupid or misinterpreting this but look: These are the brown bears footprints ibb.co/WD5tyXNThere’s 5 toes. Tiger ibb.co/r4QxLxPibb.co/gFpxNzsibb.co/5XQ6NZGFour toes, and the declaw does not touch the ground while walking. This would explain the 18cm. So the bear is small, yes. Also, I found this (hopefully it loads) www.researchgate.net/publication/311948285_Bear_footprints_and_their_use_for_monitoring_and_estimating_numbers_of_brown_bears_Ursus_arctos_L_in_BulgariaThe truth is coming out now. I will add; The bear carcass was covered in ice and snow while the footprints appeared fresh and could be seen clearly. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 3:17:33 GMT -5
The W.J. Jankowski Story
W.J. Jankowski (in Mazak, 1983) shot a very large (11.6 'over curves' and about 300 kg.) male tiger in Heilongjiang (north-eastern China) in July 1943.
300kg = 661 pounds. The heaviest male Amur tiger actually weighed - Dr. Feng Limin confirmed he had personally seen a wild male Amur tiger of 270 kg (596 pounds).
Jankowski reported that this giant tiger had killed and was feeding on a large bear (species not said). Yet the tiger fan community claims the bear was a huge male brown bear.
The scientific community did not confirm this hunter's story, but the tiger fan base claims it all as factual.
Question: If Jankowski found the mostly eaten remains of the bear, how would he know that the tiger had killed it? The two most common deaths of large male bears are bigger bears or human related cause. A tiger will not refuse a found carcass. Also I will say, a hunter will often make his story colorful. There might not have even been a bear on the scene.
*No evidence was presented to back the hunter's story.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 3:49:47 GMT -5
FACT: Of these five stories, (1) The 1951 Tatibe River tigress (2) About M20/T-20/Dale/Dima/Misha killing a large bear (3) Ochkarik and Chlamida (4) Odyr and Misha, and (5) The W.J. Jankowski Story, not one of them confirmed an adult male brown bear killed by a tiger or that a tiger killing an adult bear of any sex or species heavier than himself.
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By Warsaw:
Confirmation by Yuri Kya that the tiger 'Odyr' indeed killed a large adult male brown bear
Confirmation Definition & Meaning
confirming proof : CORROBORATION
found confirmation of a theory
The report needed confirmation.
b
: the process of supporting a statement by evidence
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 5:13:51 GMT -5
confirmation www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confirmation an act or process of confirming. a : confirming proof : CORROBORATION found confirmation of a theory The report needed confirmation. b : the process of supporting a statement by evidence confirmational ___________________________ confirmed; confirming; confirms : to give new assurance of the validity of : remove doubt about by authoritative act or indisputable fact |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 5:21:42 GMT -5
corroborate
: to support with evidence or authority : make more certain
CONFIRM, CORROBORATE, SUBSTANTIATE, VERIFY, AUTHENTICATE, VALIDATE mean to attest to the truth or validity of something.
CONFIRM implies the removing of doubts by an authoritative statement or indisputable fact.
confirmed the reports
CORROBORATE suggests the strengthening of what is already partly established.
witnesses corroborated his story
SUBSTANTIATE implies the offering of evidence that sustains the contention.
the claims have yet to be substantiated
VERIFY implies the establishing of correspondence of actual facts or details with those proposed or guessed at.
AUTHENTICATE implies establishing genuineness by adducing legal or official documents or expert opinion.
handwriting experts authenticated the diaries
VALIDATE implies establishing validity by authoritative affirmation or by factual proof.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 11:18:16 GMT -5
biology having findings peer reviewed
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Peer review ensures that:
The article's findings make a significant contribution to its field
The article provides new information within its field
The article has no errors or biases in its experimental procedures and analyses
Peer-reviewed articles are primarily published in academic, scientific, or other scholarly publications. They are highly respected, and are published in journals that have gone through a rigorous peer review process.
There are two types of peer-reviewed articles in peer-reviewed science journals:
Primary research articles: Describe original research written by the researcher(s) of the study
Other types: May include case studies
The peer review process involves a rigorous review of the following: research methods, presentation, and background knowledge.
The process also includes the following types of peer review:
Single-blind: Reviewers know who wrote the article
Double-blind: Reviewers do not know who wrote the article You can confirm that an article is peer-reviewed by looking up the journal title in UlrichsWeb Global Serials Directory. If you see a symbol for a referee shirt, the journal is refereed, which is another way of saying it is peer reviewed.
You can find peer-reviewed articles in library databases such as: CINAHL, Academic Search Complete, and Social Sciences Full Text.
Most databases have a limiter or check-off box that allows you to limit your results to peer-reviewed journals.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 11:24:12 GMT -5
Just the Facts www.nature.com/articles/s42003-018-0030-x Scientific investigation is grounded in the objective pursuit of facts as guided by the scientific method. The process by which new results are vetted and communicated publicly—peer review—should be guided by similar principles. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 11:33:42 GMT -5
We now have three *stories told by the "tiger fan base" each of which they claim to be *confirmed cases of a tiger killing a huge full-grown male brown bear.
Of course, not even one of these (so-called) confirmed events was published nor did even one go through any form of scientific process to be confirmed.
(1) The Ochkarik and Chlamida story - debunked.
(2) The Odyr and Misha tall-tale - debunked.
(3) The W.J. Jankowski Story - debunked.
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(1) There was no reports filed.
(2) There was no evidence.
(3) No authoritative witnesses corroborated his story.
(4) No peer review from other biologists.
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Post by brobear on Jul 16, 2024 23:34:52 GMT -5
I can easily understand if a tiger fan wishes to say, "I believe that these stories are true and that a tiger will sometimes ambush and kill a full-grown male brown bear." This would be perfectly fine. However, this is not the case. Tiger fans, from the college boy hotshots to the school boy weasels who worship them, are claiming these stories to be confirmed facts.
Fact; as bear fans, we do not do this.
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There is not even one single confirmed report, filed, peer reviewed, documented, and published of a tiger ever killing a full-grown male brown bear.
Any biologist, who can prove that a tiger has killed a healthy full-grown male brown bear will, without exception, file such a report.
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Post by brobear on Jul 17, 2024 15:06:10 GMT -5
What I have sought on the internet is the step-by-step process a biologist would take if he wished to prove that a full-grown male brown bear was killed by a tiger. I came up empty.
Any information will be greatly appreciated. 
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2024 9:43:19 GMT -5
Tiger fans; try using "the process of supporting a statement by evidence" rather than personal opinions, regardless of whose personal opinion you're clinging to.
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