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Post by brobear on Jul 12, 2024 14:56:43 GMT -5
The Leopard  |
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Post by brobear on Jul 12, 2024 15:34:34 GMT -5
Leopard HBL = 147cm or 4 feet 9.84 inches. Sloth bear HBL =5’-6’ | 1.52-1.85 m  |
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Post by brobear on Jul 12, 2024 15:42:03 GMT -5
The size difference between the leopard and the sloth bear is strikingly similar to the size difference between the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear. The same can be said for the size difference between the cougar and the black bears of Western North America. The leopard will surrender his kill to the sloth bear with no physical contact between the two animals. The cougar will surrender his kill to the black bear with no physical contact between the two animals. I see absolutely no reason to believe that the relationship between an Amur tiger and a full-grown male Ussuri brown bear is any different. There is such a thing as "basic cat behavior"  |
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 13, 2024 1:57:21 GMT -5
Regarding sloth bear, it depends on which one you are talking about. Sloth bears from Sri Lanka are smaller than these in the main continent. Yet the largest sloth bear killed by a leopard is a 3/4 grown female Sri Lanka sloth bear.
Male Ussuri brown bears outweigh male Amur tigers by 200 pounds approximately while the male black bear can be two or three times heavier than a male cougar.
This is similar to average male polar bear which is 2 or three times heavier than male Siberian tiger.
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Post by brobear on Jul 13, 2024 2:49:10 GMT -5
Regarding sloth bear, it depends on which one you are talking about. Sloth bears from Sri Lanka are smaller than these in the main continent. Yet the largest sloth bear killed by a leopard is a 3/4 grown female Sri Lanka sloth bear. Male Ussuri brown bears outweigh male Amur tigers by 200 pounds approximately while the male black bear can be two or three times heavier than a male cougar. This is similar to average male polar bear which is 2 or three times heavier than male Siberian tiger. Well, yes I'm talking about the Indian sloth bear (as pictured). HBL the average bear is slightly longer but has a considerable weight advantage. The black bears of Western N.A. are smaller than those East of the Mississippi River. The size difference between the bear and the cougar are comparible to the difference between Amur tiger and Ussuri brown bear. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 13, 2024 3:05:35 GMT -5
I did another comparison between a 165lbs Sri Lankan sloth bear and a 125lbs Sri Lankan leopard; I kept to the weight data on Wikipedia as I couldn't find nothing scientific about them. I adjusted the sloth bear to the weight of the leopard to have a fair comparison; note that this really is a sloth bear model, it seems like a sun bear as it was in the rain and all his fluffy hair had become wet. What do you think?  The smallest sloth bear subspecies and a leopard. There appears to be little difference in this sloth bear/leopard comparison in Sri Lanka and an Indian sloth bear/leopard in India. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 13, 2024 7:20:20 GMT -5
*Perhaps a member who is good with math can compare the weight ratio between a cougar and a western N.A. black bear / a leopard and an Indian sloth bear / and an Amur tiger and an Ussuri brown bear. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 13, 2024 8:12:04 GMT -5
IF a full-grown male Amur tiger, feeding on a herbivore, sees a full-grown male Ussuri brown bear walking towards him, and not slowing down, I believe that the tiger might attempt to intimidate the bear with hisses, growls, and snarls. But, if the bear keeps coming, (imo) the tiger will retreat. It just doesn't make sense that the tiger would be willing to fight face-to-face that which he refuses to ambush. Also note; no struggle means no evidence that the tiger was displaced by the bear. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 18, 2024 12:42:56 GMT -5
Reply# 4381. Continued........ Male Brown Bear Dominance Over TigerIn wild, due to size and strength, a male black bear dominates any type of cougar, and a male sloth bear would dominate any type of leopard; so a male brown bear similarly would dominate any type of tiger. Just as in other places if the world where brown bears live, the ussuri brown bear is also the king of its place too. So strong, large, fierce and durable that tigers avoid him (Batalov). Even an adult male tiger would avoid the adult male bear due to the bear's fearsome natural features. The male bear don't avoid anyother animal, from tiger to wild boar, because the bear does not fear but is featured.
A tiger would never even try to think to prey on an adult bruin showing the bear's dominance over him. These bears are never on their menu (Pikunov, Syseov). Thats is why the 3-4 cases of tiger killing adult male brown bear, by ambush, are not confirmed as the scientific society does not accept those assumption only (Dale Miquelle). An adult male brown bear, knowing he is the boss of the woods, will take on any kill, if it belongs to an adult male tiger. In kill dispute, male brown bears invariably dominate tigers including adult males (Miquelle and Tkachenko). A brown bear is willing to attack a carcass from an adult male tiger (Just as a hunter witnessed) as smaller bear usurp kills from smaller felines. A tiger generally like leopards and cougars would surrender before a fight, and easily gives its prey to the brown bear, showing that the tiger's presence benefits the adult male brown bears. Since tigers are afraid of brown bears, they lose 35% of their precious kills to bears (Seryodkin).
Mostly tiger of any size, age or gender avoid the adult male brown bear and would flee when seeing him face-to-face. If an adult male tiger and an adult male brown bear collide in a fight, the winner would always be the bear (John Valliant, Krechmar). That is why we favour the bear 19 out 20 times over the tiger. 😎. Since we know the brown bear who dominates everything in his domain with his fighting nature, fierceness, durability, enduraing power, size and strength. A brown bear is willing to attack a carcass from an adult male tiger (Just as a hunter witnessed) as smaller bear usurp kills from smaller felines. A tiger generally like leopards and cougars would surrender before a fight, and easily gives its prey to the brown bear, showing that the tiger's presence benefits the adult male brown bears. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 19, 2024 13:13:38 GMT -5
Yes, an adult male brown bear is able to displace an adult male tiger by ease is more likely than being unlikely. Ursids are evolved to scavenge and usurp kills given their size and face-to-face encountering nature. In wild, according to science, we know that:
- American black bears and Grizzly bear displace cougars from kills.
- Sloth bears and very occasionally Asiatic black bears usurp leopard kills.
- Eurasian brown bears have been know to displace lynxes from their kills.
- We have proof of brown bears displacing tigers from kills as well.
There are accounts of sloth and black bears displacing tigers from kills though i don't generalise it since here the feline is bigger.
If small bears do displace/chase/steal/usurp/dominate/force away kills/carcases from smaller felines compared to themselves for what reason it cannot be logical to conclude or assert that adult brown bear can/do usurp adult male tiger kills given the same advantage?
For a scavenger, size or numbers matter where in this case the bear clearly got the size with a lot of strength, courage and fighting skills. What logic are we missing here?
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Post by brobear on Jul 21, 2024 8:08:11 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 25, 2024 18:11:34 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jul 26, 2024 1:19:37 GMT -5
Incredible job well done. I just read completely page #1. Yeah, I have no doubts that a 600 pound brown bear would not hesitate to displace a 400 pound tiger from his kill without hesitation. I also hold no doubts that the tiger will relinquish his kill without resistance, because he knows that resistance is futile.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 28, 2024 4:07:15 GMT -5
Yes, an adult male brown bear is able to displace an adult male tiger by ease is more likely than being unlikely. Ursids are evolved to scavenge and usurp kills given their size and face-to-face encountering nature. In wild, according to science, we know that: - American black bears and Grizzly bear displace cougars from kills. - Sloth bears and very occasionally Asiatic black bears usurp leopard kills. - Eurasian brown bears have been know to displace lynxes from their kills. - We have proof of brown bears displacing tigers from kills as well. There are accounts of sloth and black bears displacing tigers from kills though i don't generalise it since here the feline is bigger. If small bears do displace/chase/steal/usurp/dominate/force away kills/carcases from smaller felines compared to themselves for what reason it cannot be logical to conclude or assert that adult brown bear can/do usurp adult male tiger kills given the same advantage? For a scavenger, size or numbers matter where in this case the bear clearly got the size with a lot of strength, courage and fighting skills. What logic are we missing here? While I support the male Ussuri brown bear 7/10, over the male Siberian tiger, there is an actual account which says the brown bear prefers a tigress. I think all of us have seen it. Why do you think that is the case? I have already explained mine. I think a male polar bear will displace any big cat from its kill, extinct or extant. |
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Post by Montezuma on Jul 28, 2024 4:41:04 GMT -5
There is a confusion though in this case. Well, the tigress is simply smaller but in defending prey she must be more in a more fierce stance since she has to feed her cubs as well which might perish. However, since an adult male brown bear isn't afraid of any creature except another bear or man, he with no hesitation can trace a adult male tiger as well (Miquelle & Tkachenko).
We basically have many accounts on tigress killed in prey-defending cases because she has cubs, which she has to feed and have to do her best to preserve the meal for cubs and she risks her life; whereas the adult male tiger is own his own, so he simply departs the meal to bear (leaving no accounts of any serious kill confrontation and tigresses do).
Yes, they prefer tigresses because they are smaller however they take over makes as well. Just as Male American black bears who dominate kills disputes against cougars of any sex or age.
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Post by brobear on Jul 28, 2024 4:45:16 GMT -5
Tigers killed by bears: According to confirmed accounts, every tiger killed by a brown bear has been tiger cubs, adult tigress, or young male tigers including both adolescent and sub-adults. Cubs; no explanation needed. _______________________ Adult tigress: a tigress might be willing to fight in defense of her cubs. She might find herself desperate enough to attempt to defend a carcass, knowing that her cubs are hungry. _______________________ Sub-adult (teenager) male tiger: Just like a teenage boy, this young tiger probably thinks himself bigger and stronger than he actually is. A teenager is prone to make foolish decisions. A male tiger; below the age of full maturity, might attempt to defend a carcass from a full-grown male brown bear. He might even be foolish enough to attempt to ambush a full-grown male brown bear. _______________________ Remember; it is the tiger who does the hunting. A fully-mature male tiger is wise enough to know better than to ambush or fight with a full-grown male brown bear. A full-grown tiger is not suicidal. A tigress will much more often find herself desperate enough to fight a full-grown male brown bear than would a fully matured male tiger, even though she knows that such a confrontation is suicidal. |
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Post by brobear on Jul 29, 2024 7:08:05 GMT -5
Brown bears are kleptoparasites  |
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