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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:09:45 GMT -5
There are a lot of historical accounts of cougars killing adult brownies and baribals. The reliability of the accounts is questionable as old accounts are exaggerated, there are even accounts of tigers killed by dholes, lone dogs and leopards. The biologists have refuted those stories.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:12:00 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:15:07 GMT -5
Book, Bears in the Yellowstone Author, Milton Philo Skinner, scientist and educator, who worked for Yellowstone National Park, its concessioners, and its government partners in a variety of positions over more than thirty years. "Some of the Indians and our own pioneer hunters used to tell us that the cougar or mountain lion could kill a full-grown grizzly. But, while i have searched through much literature, i can find no authenticated instance. Personally, i doubt these stories very much. It does not seem likely that the big cat could spring upon him and bite through his heavy hair and thick hide quick enough and far enough to cripple him before the big bear could get into action. In a fair and square set-to the mountain lion would have no chance against the grizzly, superior in every way except the peculiar lithe swiftness of the cat. That might carry its possessor out of danger of the grizzly's rush, but it could not avail before the bear's vastly greater weight and strength in actual battle." books.google.it/books?id=_JQ_AAAAYAAJ&q=lion+could+kill+full+grown+grizzly&dq=lion+could+kill+full+grown+grizzly&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9gu7amOSAAxUJwAIHHdjxAGsQ6AF6BAgKEAM |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:20:04 GMT -5
The Works of Theodore Roosevelt: Outdoor pastimes of an American hunter Author: Theodore Roosevelt, President, Hunter, Naturalist. "In support of his position Mr Hudson alludes to the stories of cougars attacking the grizzly bear. Here i am on ground that i do know. It is true that an occasional old hunter asserts that the cougar does this, but the old hunter who makes such an assertion also invariable insists that the cougar is a ferocious and habitual man-killer, and the two statements rest upon equally slender foundations of fact. I have never yet heard of a single authentic instance of a cougar interfering with a full-grown big bear. It will kill bear cubs if it gets a chance, but then so will the fox and the fisher, not to speak of the wolf. In 1894, a cougar killed a colt on a brushy river bottom a dozen miles below my ranch on the Little Missouri. I went down to visit the carcass and found that it had been taken possession of by a large grizzly. Both i and the hunter who was with me were very much interested in whar had occured, and after a careful examination of the tracks we concuded that the bear had arrived on the second night after the kill. He had feasted heartily on the remains, while the cougar, whose tracks were evident here and there at a little distance from the carcass, had seemingly circled around it, and had certainly not interfered with the bear, or even ventuted to approach him. Now if a cougar would had ever meddled with a large bear it would surely have been on such an occasion as this." books.google.it/books?id=HuuRGwvnLoAC&pg=PA19&dq=authentic+cougar+with+big+bear&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQj9XCmeSAAxVvg_0HHS1kBawQ6AF6BAgLEAM"big bear" can refer both to black bears and grizzlies. Also Roosevelt spent his life studying North American wildlife so his statement carries weight. |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:22:48 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 12:40:34 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 13:04:30 GMT -5
Now let's debunk the account of the female cougar killing a female bear in California. www.sizedresses.org/BearCreek/mountain-lion-vs-bearThis is what it says... “In one case in California a large female cougar was displaced by an average-sized female black bear from a deer kill. The lion abandoned the site for 24 hours, but then looped back to confront the bear. What we found when we visited the kill a week later the remains of the deer and bear, side by side.” Note: it first says that the cougar was initially displaced by the bear but then looped back to confront her 24 hours after. The bear body was found near the deer kill so if it was still at the deer kill 24 hours after it means that it was sleeping. Plus... I've found another article mentioning the same incident and it says that the bear was 3 year-old while the cougar an adult. academic.oup.com/beheco/article/26/1/247/2263118Note: it says “During 1 incident of kleptoparasism in California, an adult female puma returned and killed a 3 year-old female bear that had initially displaced her from a kill.” note the words “kleptoparasism”, “California”, “female puma kills a female bear that had initially displaced her from her kill” and Elbroch the one who reported the case is one of the authors of the article, so this is the same case. As matter of fact black bears don't reach full size until 5 year-old. books.google.it/books?id=2pmyDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA96&dq=when+do+black+bears+reach+full+size&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiv5e2upOSAAxWegP0HHeS9AVAQ6AF6BAgGEAMVerdict: this case is about an adult cougar killing a subadult black bear. The bear was still able to displace the cougar even though being still younger. |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 17, 2023 13:27:21 GMT -5
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Post by Granolah on Aug 19, 2023 9:02:35 GMT -5
We can post the debunks from bearking here.
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Post by Montezuma on Aug 21, 2023 0:46:23 GMT -5
We can post the debunks from bearking here. Sure, we got alot of their. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 27, 2023 16:02:00 GMT -5
The accounts of pumas killing adult bears are all from between 100 to 150 years ago, not even one after this period. So if pumas were killing bears then, then why not now that the grizzlies are even smaller than before?
COUGAR KILLS IN YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK IN 3 DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS. (17 YEARS STUDIED), NO BEARS KILLED.
Species composition of cougar-killed prey, including primary ungulate prey species and other prey across three research phases (phase I: 1987–1993; phase II: 1998–2004; and phase III: 2014–2019; sample sizes of kills detected are indicated in parentheses).
www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/cougar.htm
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Post by brobear on Aug 27, 2023 17:30:54 GMT -5
There is only one single case of a cougar ever killing an adult black bear. If my memory stands correct, that was a female cougar and a female bear. The she-bear had displaced the cougar from her kill. 24 hours later, the cougar returns. Obviously, she had no luck in further hunting, so she returned and ambushed the bear. My thoughts are, 24 hours after usurping the deer carcass from the cougar, the bear was probably sound asleep, with a full tummy, when the cougar ambushed her. A cougar ambushing a grizzly is a fairy tale.  |
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 27, 2023 22:17:51 GMT -5
Reply #12 not to mention the black bear was a subadult - a 3 years old bear.
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Post by arctozilla on Aug 29, 2023 12:54:10 GMT -5
King Kodiak you are here why havent you post on the thread for so long?
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 29, 2023 13:12:51 GMT -5
King Kodiak you are here why havent you post on the thread for so long? |
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Post by arctozilla on Mar 3, 2024 4:06:17 GMT -5
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Post by arctozilla on Mar 3, 2024 4:10:15 GMT -5
(1976)
Thompson (1860) of Montpelier, Vermont provides a heavily dramatized account, of doubtful authenticity, of a cougar attacking a bear. Bailey wastold by E. F. Averill that a small bear, immobilized by a trap, was killed, partially
eaten, and covered with leaves, presumably by a mountain lion.
This is not from 1976, it's a 1976 book quoting a 1860 account. Prime lies about the dates of the accounts. It also says "unauthenticated account of cougar killing small bear", Prime can't read.
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bear
Parictis
Posts: 26
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Post by bear on Mar 22, 2024 9:15:06 GMT -5
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bear
Parictis
Posts: 26
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Post by bear on Mar 22, 2024 9:19:56 GMT -5
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bear
Parictis
Posts: 26
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Post by bear on Mar 22, 2024 9:21:06 GMT -5
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