|
Post by brobear on Apr 26, 2019 11:11:38 GMT -5
In your opinion of all of the wild bovine, which is the most dangerous and which would pose the most threat to a 800+ Grizzly? Lets take this as a single individual and not as a herd. I will give my opinion. I don't know as much about the Gaur or the water buffalo from Asia or Australia. To me the African Cape buffalo has the meanest disposition although on average he is a bit smaller than the American Bison, his temperament has been a development from hundreds of years of dealing with Lions. They don't call the Cape Buffalo the most dangerous game in Africa for nothing. For this reason I pick him as the biggest threat to a Grizzly of all the wild bovine. I agree; once again pure aggression over-rides size and strength. I have watched as a whole herd of Cape buffalo act almost as a military unit against a pride of lions to drive them away from a herd member. One-on-one, I will still give the big grizzly a 50-50 chance; but ( as in our topic 'Bears surviving in Africa' ) Cape buffalo just might prove to be not a good prey choice for a lone grizzly.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 26, 2019 16:02:48 GMT -5
In your opinion of all of the wild bovine, which is the most dangerous and which would pose the most threat to a 800+ Grizzly? Lets take this as a single individual and not as a herd. I will give my opinion. I don't know as much about the Gaur or the water buffalo from Asia or Australia. To me the African Cape buffalo has the meanest disposition although on average he is a bit smaller than the American Bison, his temperament has been a development from hundreds of years of dealing with Lions. They don't call the Cape Buffalo the most dangerous game in Africa for nothing. For this reason I pick him as the biggest threat to a Grizzly of all the wild bovine. I agree; once again pure aggression over-rides size and strength. I have watched as a whole herd of Cape buffalo act almost as a military unit against a pride of lions to drive them away from a herd member. One-on-one, I will still give the big grizzly a 50-50 chance; but ( as in our topic 'Bears surviving in Africa' ) Cape buffalo just might prove to be not a good prey choice for a lone grizzly. You guys are right. The Cape buffalo would be a very formidable oponent for a grizzly. The Cape buffalo although a little smaller than the Americsn bison, has never been domesticated making it more unpredictable and dangerous. But i still agree with brobear about 50%. Brown bears have done very well vs Large bovines.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Apr 26, 2019 17:17:00 GMT -5
I must clarify, I am by no means saying that a wild bull American Bison would not have the attitude necessary to deal with a Grizzly, just that you can't discount the African Buffalo's long history with Lions which makes him very adapt at fending off and in some cases killing large predators. It would take IMO a large Grizzly of at least 800 + pounds to have a 50/50 chance at killing a large wild bovine.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 29, 2019 17:17:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 30, 2019 12:47:59 GMT -5
The Showdown ( the real wild west ).
|
|
|
Post by tom on May 1, 2019 11:36:50 GMT -5
You guys mentioned a Yellowstone Grizzly that went by the name "Preacher" the bison killer. Can you give me a little background on how he coined that nickname? Was he truly a bison killer?
Speaking on a more practical viewpoint there were likely Grizzlies that did prey upon Bison in the old West, even adult Bison. Aside from stealing wolf kills, what would it take for a Grizzly (even a large boar) to attempt to take on an adult Bison. When I say what would it take I mean what would cause a Grizzly to take such a seemingly great risk? Hunger, likely. No other food options? Or... just one individual Grizzly that throws caution to the wind and is a highly aggressive individual? Would Preacher fall into this last catagory?
I'm curious if we simply had highly aggressive Bears that simply took risks that other Bears would not.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 14:20:00 GMT -5
“You guys mentioned a Yellowstone Grizzly that went by the name "Preacher" the bison killer. Can you give me a little background on how he coined that nickname? Was he truly a bison killer? To be honest, Preacher is known as the bison killer yes, but we have not seen any actual account of him killing any bison, just pictures interacting with bison. Here is the guy who took a pic of Preacher, here he says “This bear is also known as the Bison Killer as he is one of the few Yellowstone Grizzlies that can take down a Bison.”
www.flickr.com/photos/daryl-hunter/5668064310
look at how this bear is built, look at the front limbs. I can see it taking down a male bison for sure.
|
|
|
Post by tom on May 1, 2019 14:42:27 GMT -5
From what I just found he coined the name Preacher because of the light colored fur around his neck that can be construed as a collar. The mention of him of only a few Yellowstone Grizzlies that could take down a Bison is pretty vague. So is that just hearsay or has he been witnessed doing so?? The only other thing I can find on him is that he is supposedly the largest Grizzly in Yellowstone.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 1, 2019 15:49:16 GMT -5
Yeah, like i said above, Preacher as the bison killer is just stated by the guy who took that pic in link above, but we have not seen any actual account of Preacher killing bison or any other animal. Although just by looking a him, he would be able to.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Jul 11, 2019 20:02:01 GMT -5
THE GREAT BEAR ALMANAC. A BISON DESTROYS A BEAR IN A FIGHT. THE BEAR HAD TWO HOLES IN IT. ALL THE BEAR’S RIBS ON ONE SIDE WERE BROKEN. ALSO, HUNTER WITNESSES A HUGE MALE GRIZZLY ATTACK A SMALL HERD OF BUFFALO COWS PROTECTED BY FIVE OR SIX BULLS. WHEN THE BULLS CHARGED, THE BEAR STRUCK ONE OF THEM SO HARD WITH HIS PAWS THAT HE BROKE THE BACK OF THE BULL, KILLING HIM INSTANTLY.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 7, 2019 11:40:31 GMT -5
A mature male grizzly having some experience in killing cattle should have a good 50% chance against any wild bovine bull species and a good 75% chance or better ( depending on breed ) against any domesticated bovine bull.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 8, 2019 4:41:06 GMT -5
A mature male grizzly having some experience in killing cattle should have a good 50% chance against any wild bovine bull species and a good 75% chance or better ( depending on breed ) against any domesticated bovine bull. Clarification: After reading numerous books on the topic of historic grizzly ( American West 1800's ) we are not talking about Rocky Mountain grizzlies normally within the 400 pound range, which are all grizzlies south of Canada. No. The grizzlies of the Great Plains that followed the bison herds were bigger bears ( according to the pioneers ). We are talking about grizzlies ranging from 700 to 1,000+ pounds.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 11, 2019 17:34:33 GMT -5
CARPATHIAN BROWN BEAR (URSUS ARCTOS ARCTOS) KILLS 2 BULL BISONS IN POLAND
Both were not far apart. Of the first of them, an 8-year-old bull, only the front part remained, including the head. In contrast, the body of the second individual, also a bull but 11 years old, has been preserved in better condition. He had a damaged spine and bear claw wounds. - We have informed this fact of the Poviat Veterinary Officer in Sanok, the branch of the Polish Academy of Sciences in Ustrzyki Dolne and the European Bison Friends Association - says Wojciech Jankowski from Lesko Forest District. - On Sunday, November 19, a visual inspection of the place and the remains of the bison was carried out. Tissue samples were taken for genetic testing and for tuberculosis - bison diseases in the Bieszczady Mountains. On the basis of a visual inspection of the incident site and animal remains, the veterinarians ruled out human interference, while a bear attack was assumed as a very likely cause of the fall of the bison, which is indicated by the injuries and numerous tracks of this predator, as well as its lair. - A few years ago in this area we had a case of a bison killed by a bear, which for several weeks ate its prey just at the threshold of winter - reminds Wojciech Jankowski. - It seems that the predator also took this opportunity to catch more animals from herds of bisons moving towards their winter refuges. A deep gorge, to which a bison breaks legs or falls, gives the predator an advantage. Forestry Lesko will apply to the Regional Directorate for Environmental Protection in Rzeszów for permission to prepare skulls of fallen bison for educational purposes. translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&hl=pl&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://gospodarkapodkarpacka.pl/news/view/23091/niedzwiedz-zabil-dwa-zubry-w-bieszczadach&xid=
|
|
|
Post by tom on Dec 11, 2019 20:42:34 GMT -5
Wow you got me Kodiak. I had no I idea that Poland had Bison? Are they the same as American Bison?
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 11, 2019 21:40:29 GMT -5
Wow you got me Kodiak. I had no I idea that Poland had Bison? Are they the same as American Bison? Yeah, The European bison (Bison bonasus) which is a close cousing of the American bison. It is the largest wild land animal in Europe. Adult bulls average about 1400 lbs, but can reach a weight of 900 kg (1985 lbs)
polska.pl/tourism/nature/polands-pride-european-bison/
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 12, 2019 3:13:29 GMT -5
allaboutbison.com/bison-world-news/europe/european-bison/ The European Bison Conservation Center (EBCC) is the International Network gathering European bison breeders from Poland, Germany, Russia, Sweden, Spain, Romania, Belgium, Czech Republic and Belarus. Bialowieski Park Narodowy The European bison featured two distinct subspecies – a lowland bison, also called the Białowieża bison Bison bonasus bonasus and the mountain Caucasian bison Bison bonasus caucasicus. Poland: 1567 animals 2015. (some 2016 data shows Poland having another 131 animals, these are not included in the total at the bottom) *Fantastic find there King Kodiak.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 12, 2019 3:51:51 GMT -5
2 adult bull bisons, one 8 years old and the other 11, killed by the Carpathian brown bear in a very short time. How many accounts we have like this before? Very very few. Shows what a brown bear is capable of doing.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 12, 2019 4:16:59 GMT -5
2 adult bull bisons, one 8 years old and the other 11, killed by the Carpathian brown bear in a very short time. How many accounts we have like this before? Very very few. Shows what a brown bear is capable of doing. Each year, in early Spring when the bears are waking-up and hungry ( Yellowstone ) the bears are commonly found feeding on the remains of bison that didn't make it through the harsh Winter. Now; I am sure that the vast majority of these sightings are just that - a grizzly feeding on a found carcass. But I would wager that now and then the grizzly is seen feeding on the carcass of a bison he killed himself. Not all is witnessed.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 12, 2019 4:19:33 GMT -5
2 adult bull bisons, one 8 years old and the other 11, killed by the Carpathian brown bear in a very short time. How many accounts we have like this before? Very very few. Shows what a brown bear is capable of doing. Each year, in early Spring when the bears are waking-up and hungry ( Yellowstone ) the bears are commonly found feeding on the remains of bison that didn't make it through the harsh Winter. Now; I am sure that the vast majority of these sightings are just that - a grizzly feeding on a found carcass. But I would wager that now and then the grizzly is seen feeding on the carcass of a bison he killed himself. Not all is witnessed. Yeah, definitely agree.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 24, 2019 17:04:14 GMT -5
The California Grizzly - bear in mind - from the collections of the Bancroft library:
This animal - the biggest and fiercest of the genus - inhabits the mountainous parts of the Missouri region, the forested banks of the Yellowstone River and of the Little Missouri, and the great Rocky Mountain range. It is much bigger, stronger, and faster than the biggest Brown Bear. It often weighs from 800 to 900 pounds. Its muscular strength is so great that it can easily kill the biggest bison. Its fur is used for making muffs and shawl trim, and its pelt sells for twenty to fifty dollars.
|
|