|
Post by brobear on Feb 26, 2021 2:04:57 GMT -5
The Pleistocene Epoch Pelorovis antiquus (prodigious/monstrous sheep), also known as Syncerus antiquus aka, the log-horned buffalo! This wild cattle first appeared in the early Pleistocene Epoch (2.5 MYA) and survived well into the Holocene as recently as 2,000 BCE. Discovered throughout Africa and was named by Hans Gottfried Reck in 1928. Other species include Pelorovis howelli (Hadjouis and Sahnouni, 2005), Pelorovis kaisensis (Geraads and Thomas, 1994), Pelorovis oldowayensis (Reck, 1928), Pelorovis turkanensis (Harris, 1991). Classified as Mammalia, Artiodactyla, Bovidae and Bovinae. Measured 3 meters (9.8 feet) in length, 190 cm (6 feet 2.8 inches) in height, 1,200 kilograms (2,600 lb), with the largest males attaining 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb). Remains of around 100 individuals, quite possibly more have been unearthed. In life the horns would have been covered by keratin, the same Protein that human finger and toe nails are made from, but a substance that very rarely fossilises. With a covering of keratin, the horns of P. antiquus could reach 2.4 meters (7 feet 10.4 inches) in length and resembling in shape those of the Wild Water Buffalo (Bubalus). In addition the way the horns curve depends upon the species in question. The main inspiration for the artists scene was some Libyan rock art of Pelorovis antiquus (aka, Syncerus antiquus) with a cattle egret on its head. Illustration by Benjamin Langlois.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 15:27:18 GMT -5
can largest and meanest tiger hunt and kill that beast by ambush at night? Long horned buffalo I mean.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Feb 26, 2021 17:48:18 GMT -5
can largest and meanest tiger hunt and kill that beast by ambush at night? Long horned buffalo I mean. If I am remembering correctly, that long horned buffalo lived in Africa. Therefore; lions. My question, would long horns be an advantage in a battle against lions? Edit and add: Pelorovis (antiquus) Pelorovis ("prodigious/monstrous sheep") is an extinct genus of African wild cattle, which first appeared in the very beginning of the Pleistocene, 2.5 million years ago, and became extinct at the end of the Late Pleistocene about 12,000 years ago or even during the Holocene, some 4,000 years ago. The genus was first described by Hans Reck in 1928 to house his new species P. oldowayensis, which he described from bones originally found by him in Olduvai Gorge in northern German East Africa (Tanzania) in 1913, the first ever time this famous locality was explored by a palaeontologist. Hence, the type species is P. oldowayensis by monotypy. The holotype is a fossil skull and assorted bones kept in Berlin. The first fossil known was a skull discovered along the Bou Sellam River near the city of Sétif, Algeria, at one meter in depth, when excavating the foundations of a new mill, and subsequently sent to Paris by one M. Favre de Ribauvillers. This, now classified as P. antiquus, was originally classified as a type of water buffalo by Georges Louis Duvernoy, who described it under the name Bubalus (Arni) antiquus in 1851. With some awe, Duvernoy states of the skull: "c'est ... remarquable par ses grandes dimensions, qui m'a révélé l'existence passée de cette espéce". It was moved to Pelorovis in 1978. P. antiquus was then subsequently moved to Syncerus in 1994, which has been subsequently followed by many authors. The species P. kaisensis was named in 1994 from Kaiso, Uganda. Hadjouis and Sahnouni considered it to be closer to Syncerus in 2005. A 2007 study by Bienvenido Martínez-Navarro and colleagues of the morphology of the fossil remains came to the conclusion that Pelorovis is probably not monophyletic. These authors reclassify the early forms of the genus, P. turkanensis and P. oldowayensis, in the genus Bos. In contrast, they find that the late Pleistocene form Pelorovis antiquus seems to be a close relative of the modern African buffalo (Syncerus caffer). This approach essentially subsumes the genus as a synonym of Bos, because the type species is P. oldowayensis. A number of the authors of this study reiterated their classification of the taxa Pelorovis turkanensis and P. oldowayensis in the genus Bos in another paper published 2014. Alexandre Hassanin follows the interpretations of Martínez-Navarro et al., pointing to previous genetics work which show that the bovid lineages which produced the modern species within the genera Bos, Bubalus and Syncerus split from each other some eight to nine million years ago, indicating that either the fossil ancestors of these species have not yet been discovered, or that they already have been found, but are taxonomically misidentified. He further points out that Martínez-Navarro et al. are only looking for the ancestor of Bos primigenius in their studies of African fossil bovids, and that the Asian species of Bos may have been derived from other fossil species. Lastly, Hassanin notes that if Pelorovis is reduced into synonymy due to these studies, this also implies the other Pleistocene fossil genera Leptobos and Epileptobos are synonymous with Bos. A 2018 study by Tong et al. of the Chinese fossil representation of Bos primigenius uses morphology to dispute these conclusions regarding these taxa belonging to the genus Bos, as well as if they are the ancestral line from which Bos evolved, instead hewing to the traditional interpretation that the Indian Early Pleistocene fossil species Bos acutifrons is the primordial ancestor of Bos. The etymology of the generic epithet "pelorovis", chosen by Reck in 1928, is compounded from the Greek πέλωρος (péloros) in the sense of "monstrous" or "huge and terrible" and Latin ovis, meaning "sheep". Pelorovis resembled an African buffalo, although it was larger and possessed longer, curved horns. Pelorovis probably weighed about 1,200 kilograms (2,600 lb), with the largest males attaining 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb). This ranks it as one of the largest bovines, and indeed one of the largest ruminants ever to have lived, rivalling the extinct American long-horned bison (Bison latifrons), and the extinct Asiatic giraffid Sivatherium giganteum, as well as the extant African giraffe (Giraffa camelopardis) in weight. The bony cores of the horns were each about 1 metre (3.3 ft) long; when covered with keratin (which does not survive fossilisation) they could have been up to twice this length. The horns pointed away from the head, each forming a half circle in the species Pelorovis oldowayensis and P. turkanensis. The horns of P. antiquus were even more magnificent. These traced a regular circular arc, with the bone cores of the first known skull reaching 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) in length and resembling in shape those of the Wild Water Buffalo (Bubalus). P. oldowayensis was broadly the same size as modern African buffalo, but its legs were longer, and the elongated head of this species was reminiscent to those of the modern Alcelaphinae. P. antiquus was more robust. According to Auguste Pomel, who was able to examine numerous fossils in Algeria, in life P. antiquus reached 3 metres (9.8 ft) in length from muzzle to the end of the tail, 1.85 metres (6.1 ft) in height at the withers, and 1.7 metres (5.6 ft) in height at the hindquarters. Art by Peter Schouten
|
|
|
Post by tom on Feb 27, 2021 13:11:30 GMT -5
can largest and meanest tiger hunt and kill that beast by ambush at night? Long horned buffalo I mean. My question, would long horns be an advantage in a battle against lions? IMO a set of horns that large and wide would be a hindrance rather that an advantage. To me it would be far more difficult to get those tips to go where they needed to inflict injury on an evasive predator like a Tiger or Lion. If the horns are shorter with the tips closer to the head they can be used much more effectively and accurately with a simple swing of the head one way or the other.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Mar 1, 2021 20:29:16 GMT -5
The long horned buffalo weighs just as much as a black rhino.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Mar 18, 2021 15:15:55 GMT -5
FROM WHENCE THEY CAME: THE PALEONTOLOGY OF SOUTHERN PLAINS BISON
Abstract
Long renowned for their clues to the presence and predatory abilities of North America's earliest humans, Southern Plains sites with bison remains have provided vertebrate paleontologists with food for thought for nearly a century. Bison skulls from Texas, New Mexico, and Kansas figured prominently in early taxonomic schemes, ideas on bison evolution, and the chronology of geological deposits before radiocarbon dating. Now, in addition to innumerable finds of isolated cranial parts, bison remains are reported for over 30 nonarchaeological sites from southwestern Kansas to southern Texas. A radiocarbon-dated chronology is slowly developing for these paleontological finds, and, on this basis, bison remains appear to be nonexistent in deposits older than 50,000 years BP. Moreover, most localities older than 20,000 years BP yield more remains of herbivores other than bison. Although several competing models of North American bison evolution are currently in vogue, Southern Plains finds demonstrate that serious problems hinder full acceptance of any model. These problems include small sample sizes, poor understanding of age and sex differences within nominal species, inadequate dating of most faunal localities, and (most of all) identification errors resulting from misinterpretation of nomenclature. As a result, many identifications of bison species published in the last 20 years are suspect.
www.jstor.org/stable/25669441?seq=1
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Mar 22, 2021 10:08:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 4, 2021 12:26:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 4, 2021 12:30:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by tom on Apr 4, 2021 12:34:18 GMT -5
Nice find on comparison of the Wood and Plains Bison Kodiak. Plains Bison were noticeably thicker and more densely muscled.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 4, 2021 13:01:53 GMT -5
Nice find on comparison of the Wood and Plains Bison Kodiak. Plains Bison were noticeably thicker and more densely muscled. That's what it looks like yes. Yet the Wood bison is heavier.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 4, 2021 14:03:49 GMT -5
Nice find on comparison of the Wood and Plains Bison Kodiak. Plains Bison were noticeably thicker and more densely muscled. That's what it looks like yes. Yet the Wood bison is heavier.Evidently, the wood bison would be longer/taller thus heavier.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Apr 4, 2021 14:13:41 GMT -5
Nice find on comparison of the Wood and Plains Bison Kodiak. Plains Bison were noticeably thicker and more densely muscled. That's what it looks like yes. Yet the Wood bison is heavier.Yeah i guess without any length and height measurements it just appears by those drawings that the Plains bison is larger. Something else I thought was interesting was the highest point (shoulder hump) is in a different location from each other. Woods Bison the highest point is forward of the front legs and with the Plains it's center over the front legs. I wonder what affect this would have one way or the other on things like balance, agility, speed etc...
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 4, 2021 17:16:29 GMT -5
I believe you are correct that the plains bison is built more compact. I would wager that the wood bison is simply a bigger bison ( height and length ), but does not have a more robust build.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 17, 2021 9:00:12 GMT -5
Going against a wild bull bovine, I sincerely believe that a big brown bear is better equipped than a big cat.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 21, 2021 22:36:27 GMT -5
Reply #376:
Banteng vs Pantanal jaguar: i would love to see the jaguar get wrecked.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 25, 2021 3:00:03 GMT -5
It is accepted by nearly every "elite" poster as well as most "experts" that the Bengal tiger will stalk, ambush, and kill a massive bull gaur. Even though the actual ambush and killing has never been caught on camera nor ( as far as I know ) has it ever been witnessed. In Yellowstone, especially in early Spring, grizzlies can be seen feeding on bison carcasses. It has always been assumed that all of those dead bison were individuals that did not survive the Winter. Casey Anderson, some years back, made a short documentary where he went out and filmed grizzlies at night. He found that, although grizzlies can be fairly active during daylight hours, they were much more active at night. Surprisingly, there has been very little observation of them during the night-time hours. So, this leaves the question; of those bison carcasses that the grizzlies are feeding on: ( 1 ) how many died of natural causes from the harsh Winter months? ( 2 ) how many were usurped from a pack of wolves? ( 3 ) how many were killed by a grizzly?
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Apr 25, 2021 11:47:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 25, 2021 16:16:34 GMT -5
I agree with all said. Those who did not survive the long harsh Winter are probably, for the most part, the very young and the very old. In the Winter snow is where the wolf is at his best and the most effective hunter. So yeah, a large percentage of the bison carcasses consumed by bears are wolf kills. But my main point is this; I have no doubts that some small percentage of those bison are killed by big boar grizzlies. I have no reason to suspect otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by Montezuma on Apr 26, 2021 11:42:02 GMT -5
I also thionk that some bisons die in the winter which may be old, weak, injuried or sick. By using their large heads, they uncover the grass beneath snow which i have seen in many documentries.
|
|