Tiger/Brown Bear Comparison as a Species

[brobear]

*So why Tiger/Brown Bear Comparison as a Species?   
Because normally, in every tiger vs brown bear debate, one of the moderately-sized inland brown bears is chosen as the adversary for one of the biggest tiger subspecies ( Amur or Bengal ). Therefore, I feel that it is only fair to show a comparison of the typical tiger as a species with a typical brown bear as a species.  
 
What is a rough estimation of Ursus arctos ( all subspecies of brown bears - full-grown males )? 
 
OldGreenGrolar had asked this question once some months ago.  
 
1- Gobi bear - 300 pounds ( rough estimate ) 
2- Syrian brown bear - 300 pounds ( rough estimate ) 
3- Himalayan brown bear - 300 pounds ( rough estimate ) 
4 - Tibetan brown bear - 300 pounds ( rough estimate ) 
5- grizzly - 470 pounds 
6- East Siberian brown bear - 520 pounds.
7- European brown bear - 590 pounds. 
8- Ussuri brown bear - 657 pounds. 
9- Kamchatka brown bear - 660 pounds. 
10- Alaska Peninsula brown bear - 860 pounds. 
11- Kodiak brown bear - 1,077 pounds.    
 
*This averages out to roughly 548.5 pounds for the average full-grown male brown bear.    
 
Not real science as population sizes were not considered and some weights are estimates. The greatest populations are those of the coastal giants.

[brobear]

*Updated version:

1- Himalayan 'red' bear - 298 pounds.
2- Tibetan 'blue' bear - 300 pounds ( estimate ).
3- Gobi bear - 342 pounds.
4- Syrian brown bear - 300 pounds ( estimate ).
5- grizzly - 470 pounds.
6- East Siberian brown bear - 520 pounds.
7- European brown bear - 590 pounds.
8- Ussuri brown bear - 657 pounds.
9- Kamchatka brown bear - 660 pounds.
10- Alaska Peninsula brown bear - 860 pounds.
11- Kodiak brown bear - 1,077 pounds. 
 
*Average adult male brown bear roughly 552 pounds.

[brobear]

The objective here is strictly about comparing the various bear species to the tiger. 
 
Here is a fresh look at the two tiger subspecies - though some still hold to the eight subspecies labelling. Credits to GuateGojira. 


I wish that we had a relatively accurate measurements and weight for the average brown bear ( Ursus arctos ) but no. 

[brobear]

The new look at tiger subspecies:

[brobear]

Mar 30, 2022 13:02:38 GMT -5 brobear said:

*Updated version:

1- Himalayan 'red' bear - 298 pounds.
2- Tibetan 'blue' bear - 300 pounds ( estimate ).
3- Gobi bear - 342 pounds.
4- Syrian brown bear - 300 pounds ( estimate ).
5- grizzly - 470 pounds.
6- East Siberian brown bear - 520 pounds.
7- European brown bear - 590 pounds.
8- Ussuri brown bear - 657 pounds.
9- Kamchatka brown bear - 660 pounds.
10- Alaska Peninsula brown bear - 860 pounds.
11- Kodiak brown bear - 1,077 pounds. 
 
*Average adult male brown bear roughly 552 pounds.

The smallest brown bears ( 1 through 4 ) are by far also the smallest in numbers - all very rare. The other inland brown bears ( 5 through 8 ) are less in numbers than the biggest of the brown bears, the coastal giants ( 9, 10, and 11 ). Therefore, giving the brown bear an average weight of 552 pounds is, in reality, being extremely generous to the tiger.

[brobear]

Continental tiger:
HB length: M- 6 feet 1 inch / F- 5 feet 6 inches.
Chest girth: M- 4 feet 1 inch / F- 3 feet 6 inches.
Weight: M- 430 pounds / F- 273 pounds.

Sunda tiger:
HB length: M- 5 feet 5 inches / F- 4 feet 10 inches.
Weight: M- 262 pounds / F- 201 pounds.
 
So, if we average out both subspecies of tiger, we get an average male tiger at 346 pounds. However, as with the brown bear, the smallest subspecies is also the fewer in numbers. Therefore I would give the male tiger an average of 430 pounds.
 
So, the 552 pound brown bear is roughly the size of a European brown bear and the average tiger roughly the size of an Amur tiger at 430 pounds? Something wrong in these numbers.  
 
*Member's thoughts on this topic much appreciated... 

[brobear]

When I add-up and average all of the Continental tigers ( Panthera tigris tigris )... Amur- 447.5, Bengal- 463, Caspian- 434.3, Indochinese- 425.5, and South Chinese- 335.1.  I come-up with: the average male Continental tiger at - 421 pounds.

*This make much better sense that all of them having an average equal with the biggest of the bunch.   
 
*Note: from domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/773/weight-collection?page=1 
 
Average Panthera tigris tigris (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all former subspecies) - 387.4 pounds for males and 257.5 pounds for females.

Average Panthera tigris sondaica (subspecies, extant, concluded out of all former subspecies) - 271.2 for males and 216.1 pounds for females.

Average Panthera tigris (species, extant, concluded out of the two present subspecies) - 329.3 pounds for males and 236.8 pounds for females.

[brobear]

So, what living tiger subspecies and brown bear subspecies would you think best represents the typical average-size of them each? 

[theundertaker45]

The vast majority of bears can be found in Russia (Kamchatka brown bears are in the minority; most of them are living in interior Russia); there are more brown bears than in the whole of Alaska/Canada/USA combined. So I think the Eurasian or the Ussuri brown bear would be a good representative of what your typical brown bear would look like if you randomly picked one individual out of the global population.

[brobear]

Very good; thank you 'Taker. So, here is the representative of the 'average' brown bear with an Asiatic lion.

[brobear]

With a wolf.

[brobear]

With a Bengal tiger.

[brobear]

Since the Bengal tiger is by far the most numerous of pure tiger sub-species... I can go along with GuateGojira's assessment... which would be only slightly smaller than the two biggest tigers, the Bengal and the Amur. 

Average full-grown male tiger = 430 pounds / Average full-grown male brown bear = 600 pounds.

Average mature male Carpathian brown bear (5 years+) - 590 pounds. I'm sure that when averaging 10+ year old bears only ( full-grown ), this would easily exceed another 10 pounds. All European population hold at roughly the same size, which is roughly 100 pounds less than the Ussuri.   
 
*Edit and add: Quite interestingly, the size difference between the average tiger ( Panthera tigris ) as a species and the average brown bear ( Ursus arctos ) as a species appears to be no different than between the Amur tiger ( specifically ) and the Ussuri brown bear ( specifically ). 

[brobear]

from left to right: Kodiak Brown Bear - Coastal Grizzly Bear - Kamchatka Brown Bear - Ussuri Brown Bear - Eurasian Brown Bear - Inland Grizzly Bear. As can be seen, the Eurasian brown bear is far down from the biggest brown bears. The smallest are not in the picture. Also note, two more large bears missing are the Siberian brown bear and the Hokkaido brown bear. So, in this line-up would come Ussuri brown bear, Hokkaido brown bear, Eurasian brown bear, East Siberian brown bear, and then the grizzly. 

[OldGreenGrolar]

Brown bear cub and tiger playing. I am not sure if the cub is a Siberian tiger cub.

[brobear]

Apr 25, 2022 2:44:03 GMT -5 theundertaker45 said:

Even though the polar bear is labeled as a distinct bear species, the brown bear's family tree is incomplete without the polar bear. 

[brobear]

The Eurasian brown bear (Ursus arctos arctos) is one of the most common subspecies of the brown bear, and is found in much of Eurasia. It is also known as the European brown bear, common brown bear, common bear, and colloquially by many other names. It seems appropriate to me, that Ursus arctos arctos happens to be the one brown bear subspecies that best represents the average brown bear - Ursus arctos.
  

[brobear]

Continental tiger:
HB length: M- 6 feet 1 inch / F- 5 feet 6 inches.
Chest girth: M- 4 feet 1 inch / F- 3 feet 6 inches.
Weight: M- 430 pounds / F- 273 pounds.

Sunda tiger:
HB length: M- 5 feet 5 inches / F- 4 feet 10 inches.
Weight: M- 262 pounds / F- 201 pounds.

Considering a small percentage of Sunda tigers in the mix, I'm thinking that perhaps the third largest tiger ( Indochinese tiger ) might best represent the typical ( average ) tiger ( Panthera tigris ) as a species.

[brobear]

Jan 24, 2022 2:10:51 GMT -5 brobear said:

Jan 20, 2022 11:41:04 GMT -5 brobear said:

Tigers:

A fresh look at the size of tigers. 

The Indochinese tiger is the third largest living tiger and ( IMO ) best represents the tiger as a species. 

 Brown bear ( Ursus arctos ) average male: 600 pounds / Tiger ( Panthera tigris ) average male 420 pounds.   
   
*Any thoughts? 

[OldGreenGrolar]

/\ Actually the Bengal tigers are more numerous than the Indochinese tigers, therefore the tigers in India might be the best representation. Just as the Eurasian brown bears are the best representation of the brown bears.