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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 1, 2020 6:55:10 GMT -5
Yak's fighting.
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Post by brobear on Dec 1, 2020 15:56:17 GMT -5
If he is consuming Yak flesh ( wild or domestic ) he is either scavenging wolf kills or killing calves ( IMO ). Two lionesses vs one wild Yak. I seriously dislike these gang-up fights: multiple number vs one. Fact: the one is obviously superior.
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Post by brobear on Dec 3, 2020 12:36:48 GMT -5
Just curious; has anyone ever witnessed only two lionesses ( no other lions around for back-up ) attacking a bull Cape buffalo?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 3, 2020 19:02:17 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Dec 3, 2020 20:28:14 GMT -5
Reply #23: This is the brutal moment three lionesses launch themselves at a huge buffalo as they teach their cubs how to hunt.
A sequence of mesmerising photographs show the buffalo scarpering as one of the lionesses flips through the air trying to sink its teeth into the beast. Another shows her clinging on to the buffalo's front legs with her claws digging in but the Cape Buffalo, which can weigh between 500 to 1,000kg, manages to flee unharmed. The images were taken at the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania. Photographer Michael Mansell, 40, from Tucson, Arizona, said: 'This was a massive Cape buffalo and the mother lionesses were training their cubs showing them how to take down a buffalo. 'If they can successfully roll the buffalo then the rest of the lions can jump on it for a successful kill. They didn't manage to do this and it actually ended with the hyenas chasing it across the river.
'It was a tense moment lasting about five to 10 minutes and involving around 16 lions.' A lioness flips through the air as she tries to sink her teeth into the neck of a huge buffalo at the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania. The big cats were hunting the prey in front of their cubs to teach them how to hunt. The mesmerising images show the queens of the jungle leaping through the air. One of the cats grazes the Cape Buffalo, which can weigh between 500 to 1,000kg, with her claws and teeth but the prey manages to flee unharmed. Photographer Michael Mansell, 40, from Tucson, Arizona, said: 'This was a massive Cape buffalo and the mother lionesses were training their cubs showing them how to take down a buffalo'. He continued: 'If they can successfully roll the buffalo then the rest of the lions can jump on it for a successful kill. They didn't manage to do this and it actually ended with the hyenas chasing it across the river'. The photographer said the whole scene was 'tense' and last 10 minutes involving around 16 lions. At one point the buffalo turns around and fights back, lunging at one of the female lions who flinches and moves backwards. Share or comment on this article: Lionesses launch themselves at buffalo in Tanzania to teach their cubs how to hunt e-mail 44 shares
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Post by brobear on Dec 3, 2020 20:30:26 GMT -5
16 lions could not take down this one single bull buffalo.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 4, 2020 23:07:21 GMT -5
16 lions could not take down this one single bull buffalo. Two male lions are actually enough to overcome one Cape buffalo. I think it depends on the pride in general. Some lion prides are specialised in buffalo hunting.
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Post by brobear on Dec 5, 2020 3:03:07 GMT -5
16 lions could not take down this one single bull buffalo. Two male lions are actually enough to overcome one Cape buffalo. I think it depends on the pride in general. Some lion prides are specialised in buffalo hunting. This is true, if they have experience. But this shows us that lions are not the highly aggressive engines of destruction that is so often portrayed on these blog sites.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 5, 2020 3:31:07 GMT -5
/\ It also confirms that lions do not have the aggression of gladiator dogs.
I am not saying this to downplay their aggression but like all wild predators, they know when to back off.
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Post by brobear on Dec 5, 2020 3:43:14 GMT -5
/\ It also confirms that lions do not have the aggression of gladiator dogs. I am not saying this to downplay their aggression but like all wild predators, they know when to back off. This is true. But these were 16 lions and one buffalo cow with her calf. Not much of a contest; yet she made it through. Life is full of surprises.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2021 5:39:31 GMT -5
Consider the Hatfields and McCoys. www.history.com/shows/hatfields-and-mccoys/articles/the-hatfield-mccoy-feud *My personal view on this subject. In such face-off scenarios as "Three Lions vs Kodiak Bear" and other such ridiculous face-off ideas, consider that in this world there are numerous brown bears as well as numerous lions. Think of the lions as the Hatfields and the brown bear as a McCoy. Two big families. If three Hatfield's ( lions ) gang-up on one big brawny McCoy ( Kodiak bear ), and the fight ends with the one McCoy being killed along with two Hatfields, then which family got the worst of this face-off? Look at the numbers. 1 dead brown bear ( McCoy ) - 2 dead lions ( Hatfields ). *The pack only wins this face-off if they kill their opponent and lose no pack members. If one pack members is killed, its a draw. If more than one pack member is killed, then most certainly the pack cannot claim a victory. ( this is the reason a wolf pack will rarely engage a grizzly, even though they are aware that they could kill even the biggest bear ).
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 3, 2021 23:55:17 GMT -5
Honestly it depends. Some say a solitary animal is less willing to fight compared to a social predator which is not always the case.
Social predators can be unwilling to take on a larger and more powerful competitor for fear of losing pack members: an essential asset of social predators.
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Post by brobear on Feb 4, 2021 0:34:22 GMT -5
Honestly it depends. Some say a solitary animal is less willing to fight compared to a social predator which is not always the case. Social predators can be unwilling to take on a larger and more powerful competitor for fear of losing pack members: an essential asset of social predators. Dogs are famous for their loyalty. This is an inherited trait from their wolf ancestors.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 4, 2021 2:07:33 GMT -5
I think we need to separate the scenarios here:
Scenario #1) an interaction in the wild. I will use bears and wolves. If 2 or 3 wolves die, and also the bear dies, then the wolf pack is weakened. Guess you can call this a tie.
Scenario #2) supposed we have a staged fight to the death, 8 vs 1. If the bear dies, but kills 3 wolves, then the pack as a whole is the winner. In this scenario, for the bear to win, it has to kill all 8 wolves and not die.
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Post by brobear on Feb 4, 2021 2:46:22 GMT -5
Scenario #ONE - 3 dead wolves and 1 dead bear is not a tie. Scenrio #TWO - 3 dead wolves and 1 dead bear - no winners except those who survive. ( depending on what these horrible people do with them ). The difference between your view and my view on animal face-off scenarios Kodiak is that I see them as the natural wild beasts that they are. There are probably as many brown bears in the world as there are lions, tigers, and wolves. Just because you place more than one antagonist against one bear, does not change this fact. You ( it appears ) view these face-off scenarios as being like a board game ( one with strange rules ). You see the bear as ONE and you see 3 wolves as ONE. I just don't see these fights as being a game. Each life is a life. www.britannica.com/animal/brown-bear Brown bears have an extremely large geographic distribution, and their worldwide population totals more than 200,000 individuals. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gray_wolf_populations_by_country#:~:text=The%20global%20grey%20wolf%20population%20is%20estimated%20to,the%20resulting%20human-wolf%20encounters%20that%20sparked%20broad%20extirpation. The global grey wolf population is estimated to be 300,000. *When one bear fights a wolf pack, and the bear is killed along with two wolves, then there is one less bear and two less wolves left in the world. ( Note: we have no record of this scenario ever playing out ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 4, 2021 7:00:44 GMT -5
I know this is one of those topics that we cant agree on. To be honest, i cant understand why you cant see that a pack is a pack. Especially in scenario #2, we are just talking about a hypothetical fight to the death, the rule would be that whoever kills who wins. If the wolves kill the bear, they win. If the bear kills all wolves, he wins. If some wolves die and the bear dies, the pack wins, the pack survived. Its a pack as a whole vs 1. Now, in your "hypothetical" scenario you would be able to have your rules, that is up to everyone, but this would be my rule.
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Post by brobear on Feb 4, 2021 7:11:34 GMT -5
Reply #5 - In hard-core face-off blog sites; this is the way the game is played. Ridiculous rules. You say a pack is a pack ( ONE ). I say that a pack is a number of individuals. When they gang-up on one, each pack member is also one. You are right in your statement "this is one of those topics that we cant agree on." I'm not going to change my mind.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 4, 2021 7:19:53 GMT -5
Remember that scenario #2, that is just a staged fight until death, inside a pit, nothing matters after that, this is not in the wild, the pack does not need to go out and hunt again, that is why i made 2 different scenarios. Yes, some wolves die, and the bear dies, this means the bear dies but the pack survives, thus the pack wins. In this scenario, more than ever, the pack is viewed as one.
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Post by brobear on Feb 4, 2021 7:36:15 GMT -5
Staged or in the wild, I just don't grasp your idea that two or more wolves count as one. Again, consider the Hatfields and the McCoys. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud If a half-dozen Hatfields gang-up on one McCoy, each Hatfield counts as one, same as the one McCoy.
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Post by tom on Feb 4, 2021 7:53:40 GMT -5
I'm not getting into this debate but thought I would post an interesting study done from 1996 - 2001 on Wolf / Grizzly interactions. What it doesn't say by their term "WON" is whether animals were killed or just driven off. Quite lopsided in favor or the Bear as you can plainly see. In that timeframe their were 8 encounters where the Wolves were deemed as won vs the Bears 23.
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