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Post by brobear on Feb 28, 2019 15:26:26 GMT -5
King Kodiak: Arctotherium Angustidens: average weight: between 2000 and 2500 lbs. max weight: around 3000 lbs. largest specimen ever around 3500 lbs. Arctodus Simus: average weight: between 1500 and 2000 lbs. max weight: around 2500 lbs. largest specimen ever discovered? BroBear: Arctodus simus: average - 1200 pounds / normal max - 2000 pounds / absolute max - 2500 pounds. Arctotherium angustidens: average - 1800 pounds / normal max - 2500 pounds / absolute max - 3000 pounds. TigerLuver - both: 2,425.08 pounds *Note: you got Arctodus simus similar to Tigerluver / I got Arctotherium similar to Tigeluver.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 28, 2019 17:14:07 GMT -5
King Kodiak: Arctotherium Angustidens: average weight: between 2000 and 2500 lbs. max weight: around 3000 lbs. largest specimen ever around 3500 lbs. Arctodus Simus: average weight: between 1500 and 2000 lbs. max weight: around 2500 lbs. largest specimen ever discovered? BroBear: Arctodus simus: average - 1200 pounds / normal max - 2000 pounds / absolute max - 2500 pounds. Arctotherium angustidens: average - 1800 pounds / normal max - 2500 pounds / absolute max - 3000 pounds. TigerLuver - both: 2,425.08 pounds *Note: you got Arctodus simus similar to Tigerluver / I got Arctotherium similar to Tigeluver. Thata what it looks like. Am glad Tigerluver, who is a biologist, has the weights very similar to us. We are all reading the same reports after all.
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Post by tom on Mar 1, 2019 10:02:59 GMT -5
I have a question for you guys.
Of all the Bear species past or present, which is considered to have the most robust skeletal frame? Robust and overall size I would assume are not always synonyms.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 1, 2019 10:17:20 GMT -5
I have a question for you guys. Of all the Bear species past or present, which is considered to have the most robust skeletal frame? Robust and overall size I would assume are not always synonyms. I would say that the species with the most robust skeleton ever would be the cave bear (Ursus Ingressus). You are right, larger Size does not mean more robust.
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Post by tom on Mar 1, 2019 10:19:19 GMT -5
would a close second be the current Kodiak Bear?
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Post by brobear on Mar 1, 2019 11:25:47 GMT -5
would a close second be the current Kodiak Bear? I would list the "biggest heaviest bones/frame per-size" bears ( top 3 ) - IMO - pure guesswork. 1 - Ursus spelaeus and Ursus ingressus. 2 - Kodiak bear. 3 - Arctotherium angustidens.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 1, 2019 11:35:39 GMT -5
would a close second be the current Kodiak Bear? I would list the "biggest heaviest bones/frame per-size" bears ( top 3 ) - IMO - pure guesswork. 1 - Ursus spelaeus and Ursus ingressus. 2 - Kodiak bear. 3 - Arctotherium angustidens. Brobear i agree with those 3. But we have to take a closer look at the Steppe brown bear also.
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Post by brobear on Mar 3, 2019 5:30:46 GMT -5
Size Matters.
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Post by brobear on Mar 3, 2019 5:56:44 GMT -5
When will artists learn to draw Ursus arctos tyrannus as a brown bear?
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 4, 2019 19:04:43 GMT -5
When will artists learn to draw Ursus arctos tyrannus as a brown bear? I guess when its officially confirmed brobear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 3, 2019 6:28:53 GMT -5
Ok let me give my list of the top 10 badass bears of all time. This time it will just be one by one.
#1: south american short faced bear. (Arctotherium Angustidens).
#2: North american short faced bear. (Arctodus Simus).
#3: Steppe brown bear. (Ursus arctos priscus).
#4: California Grizzly (Ursus arctos californicus).
#5: Cave bear (Ursus Ingressus).
#6: Cave bear (Ursus Spelaeus).
#7: Miocene epoch African bear (Agrotherium Africanus).
#8: Kodiak bear (Ursus arctos Middendorffi).
#9: Polar bear (Ursus maritimus).
#10: Grizzly bear (Ursus arctos Horribilis) (this includes Ursus arctos gyas also). Now i cant fit this bear in the top 10 of all time, but i definitely do have to mention him. This would be #11 in my opinion without a doubt. The fearless one....
SLOTH BEAR (MELURSUS URSINUS)
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 2, 2019 20:14:27 GMT -5
In my opinion (from the most aggressive to the most passive): Barren ground grizzly, Tibetan blue bear, sloth bear, Mexican carlifornian grizzly, interior grizzly bear, Atlas bear, syrian brown bear, gobi bear, Kodiak bear and coastal brown bears and penisula Alaskan brown bears, polar bears, Ussuri brown bears, Eurasian brown bears, Kamkatcha brown bears, Asiatic black bears, American black bears,sun bear,red bear, spectacle bear, giant panda.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 2, 2019 20:38:21 GMT -5
Helarctos: but the list you just made are the most aggressive bears of all time, not the most bad-ass correct? By bad-ass we mean like who would win out of all bears in history. Anyways, the mexican grizzly bear (Ursus arctos nelsoni) and the California grizzly (Ursus arctos californicus) are two different subspecies of brown bear.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 21:19:04 GMT -5
How about the Sun bear though? Sure, they are the smallest Bear but they do have strong bite force and exceptionally large Canines for their size ( i made a post on this). Most bears have relatively shorter Canines crown than Big cats do (including highly carnivorous Polar bear and extinct Bears live Arctodus or Cave bear) but Sun bear is the exception. Their Canines are just as long as those of Big cats of similar size.
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 2, 2019 21:39:14 GMT -5
How about the Sun bear though? Sure, they are the smallest Bear but they do have strong bite force and exceptionally large Canines for their size ( i made a post on this). Most bears have relatively shorter Canines crown than Big cats do (including highly carnivorous Polar bear and extinct Bears live Arctodus or Cave bear) but Sun bear is the exception. Their Canines are just as long as those of Big cats of similar size. Thats fine Verdugo. But i just dont see how that has to do with this topic which is “the most bad-ass bears of all time” the sun bear might have the strongest bite force pound for pound, but is it one of the most bad-ass bears of all time? Is it even in the top 10? Does not look like it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 21:57:07 GMT -5
^ Is 'bad ass' here in absolute or in relative term? If it's in absolute term then obviously the biggest Bears would be the most bad ass. But in relative term, the Sun bear seems pretty bad ass to me despite its small size. Doesn't it have reputation for aggression as well?
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 2, 2019 22:12:28 GMT -5
^ Is 'bad ass' here in absolute or in relative term? If it's in absolute term then obviously the biggest Bears would be the most bad ass. But in relative term, the Sun bear seems pretty bad ass to me despite its small size. Doesn't it have reputation for aggression as well? By bad-ass we mean in absolute yes. The absolute most bad-ass bears of all time, extinct and extant. Take a look at our lists on page 1. Sun bears are very aggressive yes, probably top 5, but would it beat the largest and strongest bears in history? Anyhow, its perfectly fine if you still think the sun bear is one of the most bad-ass bears in history, its your choice of course. The most aggressive bears is another topic:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/142/debate-most-aggressive-bear
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 2, 2019 23:12:32 GMT -5
Helarctos: but the list you just made are the most aggressive bears of all time, not the most bad-ass correct? By bad-ass we mean like who would win out of all bears in history. Anyways, the mexican grizzly bear (Ursus arctos nelsoni) and the California grizzly (Ursus arctos californicus) are two different subspecies of brown bear.
That correct I got mixed up as I was in the middle of working today.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 8:02:26 GMT -5
By bad-ass we mean in absolute yes. The absolute most bad-ass bears of all time, extinct and extant. Well if you say so then obviously, in absolute term, the biggest Bear would also be the most badass. I'm just saying that relatively, despite it small size, the Sun bear does pack quite a punch. Contrary to popular belief though, Arctotherium does not seem to be any bigger than Arctodus simus. If anything, Arctodus appears to be slightly larger. The largest Arctotherium specimen has a humerus 620 mm in length Soibelzon 2011 (Table 2) On the other hand, according to this post in Shaggygod, there is an Arctodus simus specimen with a humerus length up to 646 mm "Kansas River, KS, KUVP C-2427, Humerus (mm) Total length: 646 Greatest ant./postr. prox. width: 134 Least transv. width: 75 Least ant./postr. shaft width: 68 Average width shaft: 71.5 Greatest transv. width distal end: 185 Ant./postr. caput diameter: 114 Source: Gobetz, K.G., Martin, L.D., 2001. "
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 3, 2019 9:16:58 GMT -5
But if we talk about the largest single bear specimen (weightwise) in history, that belongs to Arctotherium Angustidens, who was first estimated at 4500 lbs, then downsized to about 3800 lbs, and finally left at about 3500 lbs. although Arctodus simus was taller on average.
cameronmccormick.blogspot.com/2011/01/arctotherium-angustidens-biggest-bear.html
Sunday, January 23, 2011 Arctotherium angustidens: Biggest Bear Ever? I have a bit of an obsession with animal size superlatives, and megabears* are among my favorites - that's right, I have interests beyond testudines. Anyways, in this blog's even more poorly-written past, I discussed purported giant hypercarnivores wherein I argued that the One-Ton(ne)-Hyperpredatory-Arctodus meme is unsubstantiated Godzillafication which somehow managed to infect even some peer-reviewed literature. Brian Switek wrote an article at the old Laelaps covering newer research which further demolished the mythology of the Giant Short-Faced Bear: it didn't have a short face (it did have a deep snout), or particularly long legs (somewhat of an optical illusion caused by a short back), and was probably a generalist omnivore like extant bears (presumably with some differences in niche, of course). Just as it seemed that speculations about One-Ton(ne)-Hyperpredatory-Bears would be a thing of the past, this happened:
Arctotherium is composed of 5 South American species - of which A. angustidens is the earliest, largest, and apparently most predatory - and is the sister clade of Arctodus; the two are in turn part of the clade Tremarctinae which further includes Tremarctos (spectacled bear and kin) and Plionarctos (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). The Arctotherium angustidens specimen of concern is not a new discovery, as it was found prior to 1935 during construction of a hospital in La Plata, Argentina (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). It is presently composed of radii, ulnae, and humeri from both forelimbs; metacarpals, phalanges, and a scapula fragment were also recovered but unfortunately lost (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). The dimensions of the bones* are incredible, the humerus has a length of 62 cm (2' 0.4") and the mid-shaft humerus width is 9 cm (3.5"); comparable maximum measurements of other giants bears are: Arctodus simus - 59.4 cm/6.4 cm; Ursus spelaeus - 44.8 cm/5.6 cm; and Ursus maritimus - 38.5 cm/4.65 cm (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). For those who would prefer a more graphical comparison:
Using humerus greatest length, humerus mid shaft circumference, humerus greatest distance of distal epiphysis, and radius proximal epiphysis greatest diameter, the estimated weight for the giant Arctotherium angustidens specimen ranged from 983-2042 kg (2,167-4,502 lbs), with the value likely around the mean and median of 1588 and 1749 kg (3501-3856 lbs), respectively (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). The other known specimens were given the same treatment (when possible), and a couple of them appeared to mass around a tonne (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). This would seem to suggest that the giant Arctotherium angustidens specimen was not an outsized freak, and could represent a "normal" maximum size for the species. Before too many conclusions can be made, some more discussion of the specimen is in order.
The most striking aspect of this specimen are the osteogenic changes to the deltoid crests of both humeri - more apparent in the left humerus pictured above, see arrow - and the distal third of the left radius shaft, which suggest a deep injury followed by infection and then new vascular growth over a long period of time (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). Judging by the high degree of epiphyseal fusion, the specimen managed to become an old adult (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011). Humeral mid-shaft measurements gave on average larger estimated masses (Soibelzon and Schubert 2011 - Table 3), which makes me wonder if the measurements were artificially inflated by the injury and subsequent pathological growth. However, the limited data on Table 3 shows similar proportions with a somewhat smaller specimen:
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