Size

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2019 3:41:40 GMT -5 brobear said:

Apr 8, 2019 3:09:44 GMT -5 @londonbluebear said:

Wolverines and honey badgers and even eurasian badgers are durable for their size. However, I still think bears are stronger pound to pound as 'scaled up wolverines and honey badgers' will be crushed by their own weight.
Still honey badgers do show tenacity in a country full of predators.

Mustelids are simply not "programed" to be bear-sized animals. Their main defense is aggressive behavior and bluff. "Crushed by their own weight"... a questionable theory.

'Crushed by their own weight......' might be better replaced by a 1000 pound wolverine will not be able to move since as you said, it is not made to be bear size.

[Deleted]

Weight during the fall vs weight during the spring:

Frem Troyer, Willard A. and Richard J. Hensel 1969 The Brown Bear of Kodiak Island

Willard A. Troyer : Four males weighed in the fall ranged from 960 - 1,346 pounds and three spring species ranged from 813 - 1190 lbs."

carnivora.net/showthread.php?tid=6057&pid=56969#pid56969

Credited to Warsaw.

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2019 3:30:09 GMT -5 BruteStrength said:

Interesting I never knew this. Alot of people say that wolverines are kinda like mini bears. What are your thought son this?

I think wolverines are among the most stocky in the weasel family but as Brobear said, they are simply not programmed to be like bears. I used to support wolverine and  Megalictis ferox over sun bear at parity (since their weights overlap) but after thinking about the square cube law, I would actually support the sun bear and averunge bear over the wolverine and megalictis ferox even at parity. The is a chart which says the bear actually has better grappling abilities than the mustlied family in this thread:

domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/540/strength-girth-comparison-bears-cats?page=17

Back to topic, brown bears are powerful for their size no matter how big or small they are.

[brobear]

The Grizzly Almanac:

The heaviest documented grizzly appears to be one shot on Kodiak Island in 1894, which weighed 1,656 pounds ( 753 kg ). Grizzlies over 1,000 pounds ( 2,200 kg ) are very rare; campfire tales of 2,000 plus-pound trophies are pure fantasy. As Adolph Murie once pointedly wrote, "A bear a long distance from a scale always weighs the most" ( Murie, 1961 ).

The largest Yellowstone National Park grizzly was an 1,120 pound ( 509 kg ) fatso that gained his pear-shaped figure after a steady diet of human garbage at dumps. Most Yellowstone males are 215 to 715 pounds ( 98 to 325 kg ); females are 200 to 450 pounds ( 91 to 205 kg ). In a tabulation of grizzly bear weights across North America in 1987 ( Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee ) the average male weighed 442 pounds ( 205 kg ) and the average female weighed 290 pounds ( 132 kg ). A similar tabulation from the southwest Yukon in Canada revealed an average weight of 306 pounds ( 139 kg ) for mature males and 209 pounds ( 95 kg ) for mature females ( Pearson, 1975 ).
Male grizzlies are impressive beasts that can stretch 8 feet ( 2m ) from nose to tail, with a heart girth of 82 inches ( 208 cm ). The average Yellowstone grizzly stands 3.5 to 4.5 feet ( 1.0 to 1.4 m ) high at the shoulders, with a nose-to-tail length of 77.5 inches ( 197 cm ) for males and 70 inches ( 178 cm ) for females.

[brobear]

The Bear Almanac - Second Edition:

Average weight of coastal ( Alaskan ) brown bears: 787.05 pounds.
Average weight of inland ( Yukon ) grizzly bears: 319.67 pounds.
Heaviest recorded weights:
Brown bear: 2,500+ pounds ( no data ).
Grizzly bear: 1,496 pounds.
North American Brown/Grizzly Bear Weights ( Heaviest )
Alaska - 2,500+ pounds.
Wyoming - 1,120 pounds.
Yukon - 948 pounds.
British Columbia - 800+ pounds.
Montana - 790 pounds.
Idaho - 550 pounds.
Northwest Territories - 528 pounds.

Adult Male Average Height Ranges:
Brown bear: 3 to 5 feet.
American bison: 5 feet.
Elephant: 8 feet.
Hippopotamus: 5 feet.
Rhinoceros: 6 feet.
Siberian tiger: 3 feet.

Adult Male Average Length Ranges:
Brown bear: 5 to 10 feet.
American bison: 9 feet.
Elephant: 11 feet.
Killer whale: 30 feet.
Mountain lion: 8 feet ( long tail ).
Siberian tiger: 13 feet ( long tail ).

[brobear]

www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/bears-of-the-last-frontier/hour-one-city-of-bears/brown-bear-fact-sheet/6522/

Physical Characteristics: Brown bears vary in color from blonde to black, and very rarely, even white, but they are usually medium brown with light tipped fur on their head and upper body. Coloration may change with the seasons. Their thick coats composed of coarse, protective, guard hairs and soft underfur keep them warm in the winter. In summer, they shed a lot of underfur and can look shaggy. Silver-tipped guard hairs result in a “grizzled” appearance that lends the interior North American bears the nickname, grizzly bear. Gender and nutrition influences the size of brown bears. The average weight of an interior male grizzly is 550 pounds (247 kg) and 350 pounds (157 kg) for females. Brown bears of coastal Alaska and British Columbia may weigh over 1000 pounds (450 kg). They typically stand 3 – 4 feet (91 – 122 cm) tall at the shoulder on all fours, and 6 – 7 feet (183 – 213 cm) tall when standing upright, but can also grow much larger with abundant food sources.
Features: Brown bears are characterized by a wide, massive head, dish-shaped face with long snout, long claws, and a prominent shoulder hump. The hump is a thick wad of fat and muscle for digging roots and corms under the ground, and its appearance is enhanced by longer fur at the top of the shoulders. Brown bears have round, small ears in comparison with the longer-eared black bear, and long, slightly curved claws that are 2 – 4 inches (5-10 cm) or more in length.

Spotlight: The average weight of an interior male grizzly is 550 pounds (247 kg) and 350 pounds (157 kg) for females. Brown bears of coastal Alaska and British Columbia may weigh over 1000 pounds (450 kg).

[brobear]

Bears by Ben East: Comparing the Alaskan brown bear and the interior grizzly bear:

The average grizzly weighs 450 to 800 pounds, the brown 800 to 1200, with occasional bears going up to 1500 pounds or more. The grizzly has a more pronounced shoulder hump and a shorter, dished face, but the skulls are almost identical. The newborn cubs of the brown bear are smaller in relation to their mother than the young of any other mammal, measuring barely 9 inches long and weighing about 1.5 pounds.

Average Alaskan brown bear:
Length - 8 to 9 feet long.
Shoulder height - 4.5 feet.

Average grizzly bear:
Length - 6 to 7 feet long.
Shoulder height - 3.5 feet.

[King Kodiak]

Nov 14, 2019 9:31:06 GMT -5 brobear said:

The Bear Almanac - Second Edition:

Average weight of coastal ( Alaskan ) brown bears: 787.05 pounds.
Average weight of inland ( Yukon ) grizzly bears: 319.67 pounds.
Heaviest recorded weights:
Brown bear: 2,500+ pounds ( no data ).
Grizzly bear: 1,496 pounds.
North American Brown/Grizzly Bear Weights ( Heaviest )
Alaska - 2,500+ pounds.
Wyoming - 1,120 pounds.
Yukon - 948 pounds.
British Columbia - 800+ pounds.
Montana - 790 pounds.
Idaho - 550 pounds.
Northwest Territories - 528 pounds.

Adult Male Average Height Ranges:
Brown bear: 3 to 5 feet.
American bison: 5 feet.
Elephant: 8 feet.
Hippopotamus: 5 feet.
Rhinoceros: 6 feet.
Siberian tiger: 3 feet.

Adult Male Average Length Ranges:
Brown bear: 5 to 10 feet.
American bison: 9 feet.
Elephant: 11 feet.
Killer whale: 30 feet.
Mountain lion: 8 feet ( long tail ).
Siberian tiger: 13 feet ( long tail ).

And this is how ww know that Kodiak bears are heavier than Alaskan peninsula brown bears. According to this data, they average 787 lbs, while Kodiaks average more than 830 lbs  even in spring without the hibernation fat.

[brobear]

Big Bonns - Oct 22, 2009.
The largest recent Grizzly from Yellowstone was 847lb and re-located to pacific Canada as a nuisance Bear (thats why he was weighed)
The report was all over the web 2 years ago.
Another was weighed at 810lbs shortly after and still lives in the park, possibly weighing a little more now.
There was another on the back of a truck which later weighed 790lbs but after some body fluid losses.
Heaviest ever here was 1120lbs recorded by the Craigheads in 1960 and listed in "Grizzly a wilderness legend!
Regular Grizzly males here hit about 450lb to 600lb and perhaps fatten to about 750lbs for winter, with occasional noteables hitting the 800lb sort of area.
They are officially listed at the guide centre and the Yellowstone Grizzly sanctuary centre as weighing upto 850lbs which seems about right.

My own mail with Miquelle, reported that only female Bears were taken by Tigers because they probably sense the combative of the Males, and even denned males are left alone
This would fit with my own experinces of Brown Bear that females, while highly dangerous to man (when protecting cubs) are quite retiring when it comes to Brown Bear males stalking them and i guess Tigers of good size also.
Brown Bear males tend to be highly combative, due to the experience of competition for female mating and slight territorial instincts. This would suggest that would not be fearful of 400lb to 500lb Tigers.

[brobear]

The big cat fans argue that those really big Yellowstone bears were dumpster divers. Well, yes, this is true. The Yellowstone region, a beautiful place, is a harsh environment for bears. The weights of dumpster diving bears and zoo bears show us how big a well-fed grizzly can be. Reading historical books about grizzlies ( several ) the pioneers state that the smallest grizzlies south of the Arctic tundra were the Mexican grizzly and the Rocky Mountain grizzly. All the grizzlies that we have today south of Canada are Rocky Mountain grizzlies. Those of the prairie were larger. Those of the Sierra Nevada were huge.

[brobear]

www.wideopenspaces.com/new-world-record-grizzly-bear-biggest-ever-taken-bow-gun-pics/

A LOOK BACK AT THE WORLD-RECORD GRIZZLY BEAR, ALL 27 1/16 INCHES OF HIM,

The world record grizzly bear came so close that archer Rodney Debias could smell the bear and hear him breathing.
Rodney Debias of Windber, Pennsylvania took an Alaskan grizzly bear in 2009 that was officially recognized as the new Pope & Young world record in 2016.
Although an experienced and successful bowhunter, Debias' dream of taking a grizzly bear with his bow eluded him for many years. Circumstances, however, were in his favor when in 2009 he was able to fly to Unalakleet, Alaska, to pursue his dream.

Although Debias and his guide, Don Stiles, saw the big bear two or three days into the hunt, it took eight full days of hard hunting, in nasty, icy conditions before Debias had his opportunity at the monster.

Of that first glimpse of the record bruin, Debias recounted in a 2011 story for Bowhunter magazine, "Don spotted a beautiful blonde bear 600 yards away, and I noticed another bear 100 yards below Blondie. Don guessed the blond at 7½ feet, the other at 7 feet. As we watched them, a huge chocolate bear ran between the two. He looked like a Mack Truck passing between two Honda Civics!"
But after three more days without seeing any bear or even a track, Debias and Stiles were ready to give up on their plan. That's the moment when "The Big Guy" appeared.

The grizzly had suddenly appeared at just 17 yards away. The two men were exposed, with no cover, but had the wind in their faces as the bear kept moving in their direction.

Debias recalled that at 10 yards, "Suddenly he stopped, nose in the air, nostrils flared. I could hear him draw a deep breath. He exhaled. I could smell him. He drew another breath, this time curling his lips outward. I was amazed at his size. He exhaled again. He knew something was up...He took two steps, stood straight up, and looked down on us."
Amazingly the bear did not detect the two men. Debias had his bow resting on his knee but dared not lift it to draw.

The big bruin moved past the hunters as Debias waited for the bear to look the other way. At 29 yards he had his shot and sent an arrow through the bear's chest. At 60 yards, the grizzly dropped.
After some time, confusion, and rule changes, Pope & Young scored the bear at 27 1/16 and crowned it the new World Record. Debias' grizzly is also the largest grizzly bear taken by a hunter with any weapon. The bear beat the previous World Record grizzly score of 26 3/16 by almost a full inch. That bear was killed in 2004 by Dennis Dunn and was also taken in Unalakleet, Alaska.

One of my favorite parts of Debias' story is his endcap, where he gives special mention to the people he met and hunted with in Unalakleet, Alaska. It speaks to one of the reasons why hunters do what they do, and to the brotherhood or sisterhood of the larger hunting community.

"As big as the bear was," he says, "just as important to me was the time I'd spent with Don, Virgil and Eric Umphenour, William 'Middy' Johnson (whose grandfather was one of the original Mushers on the serum run to Nome, now known as the Iditarod), and especially the people of Unalakleet."
"When life has you down and you think there's no good in the world, buy a plane ticket to Unalakleet and walk down the dirt street lined with humble houses. Strangers will invite you into their homes to enjoy their best fish and to share stories of their culture. In return, they expect only that you share stories of your own. The people of Unalakleet are the most wonderful, giving people I've ever met. Yes, I arrived wondering how anyone could live there. Now I wonder how anyone could leave."

[brobear]

This was a big monster grizzly. Lord of his domain. He could have sired many cubs to pass on his healthy genes. But an ego-maniac ( Rodney Debias ) murdered this Kong of the Forest merely to boost his ego and to make himself feel like a big brave man - the "Great White Hunter". So sad. It takes absolutely no skill and no courage to kill even a Tyrannosaurus rex with a modern high-powered rifle. Any nine-year-old girl could do it.

[brobear]

Brown bear: 2,500+ pounds ( no data )... from post #229.
from the "Bear Almanac" and they got this from the "Guinness Book of World Records" which were in error.
Clyde was estimated to have weighed roughly 2400 pounds. 
   
shaggygod.proboards.com/thread/474/guinness-world-record-kodiak-bears 
 
The greatest weight recorded for a Kodiak bear in the wild is 1656 lb 751 kg for a male shot at English Bay. Kodiak Island in 1894 by J C Tolman. The stretched skin (pegged to the side of a cabin on a frame and then weighted with rocks at the bottom edge for maximum effect) measured 13 ft 6in 4-12m from the tip of the nose to the root of the tail, and the hindfoot was 18in 46cm long (Phillips-Wolley. 1894). 
 
Clyde (Kodiak Brown Bear)
The Dakota Zoo once had the largest Kodiak bear, named Clyde, in captivity. Clyde passed away in 1987; however, still has a strong presence within the zoo, including a life-size carving of Clyde by local artist Dave Ely. Grizzlies once inhabited North Dakota and were described in the journals of Lewis and Clark. Fully grown, grizzlies can reach weights between 800 and 900 pounds. Clyde lived to the ripe old age of 22 and tipped the scales at 2,136 pounds. 

According to zoo director Terry Lincoln, Clyde probably weighed close to 2400 lbs a year earlier He still had a fat layer of 9 inches when he died.

[tom]

Then of course there was Goliath who spent his life at Space Farms zoo and museum. Goliath measured 12 ft (official?) and weight 2000 lbs.

www.spacefarms.com/zoo

[brobear]

Dec 2, 2019 9:58:05 GMT -5 tom said:

Then of course there was Goliath who spent his life at Space Farms zoo and museum. Goliath measured 12 ft (official?) and weight 2000 lbs.

www.spacefarms.com/zoo

Both Goliath and Clyde proved that at least some subspecies of brown bears have the potential of being every inch and every pound as large as the largest polar bear. It's all about food availability. 

[tom]

Yeah I guess you could liken it to a wild bear being in a condition just prior to hibernation only in this case year round.

[brobear]

Dec 2, 2019 10:32:24 GMT -5 tom said:

Yeah I guess you could liken it to a wild bear being in a condition just prior to hibernation only in this case year round.

We know that the California grizzly was a subspecies or population of very large grizzlies. His habits and diet can't be studied, but we do know that they did not hibernate; or perhaps in some regions a short hibernation. They may have rivaled the Kodiak bear as the largest of the brown bears until their demise. The largest inland grizzly skull on record is one found by a hunter. It was from a bear that had lived during the days when the prairie was kept fertilized by millions of bison. Those bears had short hibernations. 
Besides his diet of over 90% blubber, another size advantage a polar bear has is the fact that he doesn't hibernate. 

[brobear]

This study is from 1975 - 1985. Now consider that the wolf was reintroduced into Yellowstone in 1995 and since then the bears have enjoyed a diet of more meat. At this time the average mature male grizzly ( 9+ years old ) weighed 491 pounds. Probably a tad higher now.  
 

[brobear]

*The average Yellowstone grizzly averages roughly 500 pounds - we are of course referring to mature males.
Montana grizzlies are slightly bigger.
Ussuri brown bears - black grizzly - averages roughly 600 pounds. 
 
*Note: these weights are never 100% accurate and taken from random individual bears from certain populations.
Therefore, the average inland grizzly at 500 pounds could vary either way by as much as 20 pounds easily.
Also, the average Ussuri brown bear at 600 pounds could also vary easily by as much as 20 pounds either way. 

[King Kodiak]

Jan 1, 2020 8:33:05 GMT -5 brobear said:

*The average Yellowstone grizzly averages roughly 500 pounds - we are of course referring to mature males.
Montana grizzlies are slightly bigger.
Ussuri brown bears - black grizzly - averages roughly 600 pounds. 
 
*Note: these weights are never 100% accurate and taken from random individual bears from certain populations.
Therefore, the average inland grizzly at 500 pounds could vary either way by as much as 20 pounds easily.
Also, the average Ussuri brown bear at 600 pounds could also vary easily by as much as 20 pounds either way. 

Yeah, those would be the most reliable average weights of those brown bear subspecies. But for example, if a biologist weights 20 random Yellowstone grizzly bears,  9-12 years old) he might get an average weight of 500 lbs. Now another biologist might weight a whole different set of 20 bears and get an average weight of 520 lbs, or 530 lbs, or even 480 lbs. It all depends on which bears are randomly weighted.