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Post by brobear on Dec 4, 2021 8:18:08 GMT -5
When two animals of different species clash: Category 1- face to face confrontation- is a face-off. Category 2- ambush- not a face-off Category 3- chase and catch- not a face-off The strategy of an ambush: 1- Choose your intended victim. 2- Stalk your intended victim - stealth. 3- Attack - the high-speed rush between hiding place and the intended victim. 4- The Ambush - Once the predator makes physical contact with the victim - the ambush is complete - a successful ambush. 5- The Kill - Once the ambush is complete, then the victim must be killed. *Note: Should the predator fail to kill his victim, this does not mean that the ambush was a failed ambush. It was instead a failed kill. *Should the victim break free after the successful ambush and fight against the predator before being killed, the victim is still killed by ambush. What starts off as an ambush remains an ambush. I will add to this: Should the predator chase his intended victim, and the intended victim turn at the last moment, in desperation, to fight, this is still a Category 3 - chase and catch - not a face-off. *So, what is an unsuccessful ambush? Let's say that a tiger is stalking a sloth bear, but, before the tiger can launch his attack, the bear spots the tiger. This leaves the bear with the choice of fight or run. If the bear chooses to stand his ground, this leaves the tiger with the choice of fight or walk away. *This is not a failed ambush. With no physical contact after stalking the bear, this is merely a "failed attempt to ambush". This might lead to either a Category 1 face-off or a Category 3 chase and catch ( depending on what the bear decides ). Let's say that a tiger is stalking a buffalo. The tiger launches his attack, leaps upon the buffalo cow, but slips off before he can embed his claws and hold on. The tiger has made physical contact with the buffalo, but now is facing a big bovine who is ready to defend herself. *This is a failed ambush. Should the tiger kill the buffalo, it remains a Category 2 kill by ambush. www.rgo.ru/en/projects/protection-and-study-endangered-species/protection-endangered-species-siberian-tiger/about The Siberian tiger has a tremendous physical strength and greatly developed sense organs. Tigers spent a lot of time hunting. Their main prey – hoofed animals. To catch prey tiger creeps upon it, humps the back, sets his rear legs against the ground and attacks. Only one of ten attempts succeeds. If the attempt fails tiger prefers not to follow the prey but to search for a new one. When there’s not enough prey in forests the Siberian tiger can attack cattle and dogs.
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Post by brobear on Feb 5, 2022 11:49:25 GMT -5
Watch the video. Tiger vs Sloth Bear. To determine the winner, we must understand the agenda of each adversary. 1- The agenda of the big male tiger was to kill a bear and to feast on bear flesh. 2- The agenda of the she-bear was to defend her cub from a tiger double her own weight. ________________________________________________________________________
1- The tiger was unsuccessful. She failed to kill either the bear cub or the mother bear. 2- The sloth bear was successful. She managed to fend-off the bigger tiger until the tiger was too exhausted to continue the fight.
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Post by brobear on Feb 20, 2022 4:14:38 GMT -5
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 20, 2022 6:04:36 GMT -5
Again, as always, it was an ambush. A tiger of any age or sex is not going to take down a bear by face-off. I think that the yellow V-mark of the bear's chest is to give the tiger a pure signal that i have seen you clearly.
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Post by brobear on Mar 3, 2022 8:45:25 GMT -5
NEW INTERACTION-TIGER ENDS UP RUNNING AWAY: ( credits to King Kodiak )
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Post by brobear on Mar 3, 2022 8:59:20 GMT -5
Reply #446 - Thus far we have seen numerous videos and accounts of what happens when a sloth bear stands his ground ( or her ground ) against a full-grown tiger ( of either sex ). Thus far, we have only one account of the tiger actually fighting and killing the much-smaller bear. In the single case mentioned, where the prime male Bengal tiger killed the sloth bear in a face-to-face confrontation; the bear was a female less than half the weight of the tiger. *Nearly always, when a sloth bear stands his ground in defense, the tiger soon after retreats. However, sloth bears are often killed by tigers from ambush. Also, in some cases, the bear decides to flee rather that to stand his ( or her ) ground. In this case, the tiger most often catches the fleeing bear and kills him. Note: a chase-and-catch scenario is not a face-off killing.
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Post by brobear on Mar 12, 2022 4:06:47 GMT -5
Bengal tiger and sloth bear.
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Post by brobear on Mar 12, 2022 4:07:20 GMT -5
Bengal tiger and sloth bear.
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Post by brobear on Mar 13, 2022 6:56:17 GMT -5
www.ndtv.com/india-news/baloo-and-sher-khan-bear-tiger-stare-down-delights-internet-2816640 "Baloo And Sher Khan": Bear-Tiger Stare Down Delights Internet The encounter happened in Maharashtra's Tadoa Tiger Reserve. The sloth bear stood up to the tiger who was sitting in the middle of a path. When you go to a national park, or on a wild safari, the foremost thought on your mind is to see a tiger, often referred to as the “god of the jungle”. Wild encounters are the most sought after by wildlife enthusiasts as well as tourists. One such video is going viral on social media which shows the moment a sloth bear comes face-to-face with a tiger. The video of the brief encounter, which took place at Tadoba Tiger Reserve in Maharashtra, has been shared by Indian Forest Services (IFS) officer Saket Badola. "Greetings, of a slightly different kind," Mr Badola said in the Twitter caption posted along with the video. It shows the big at sitting in the middle of a path inside the tiger reserve and a black bear comes there walking along the path. When the two animals see each other, the bear stands up and even jumps to scare the tiger. The big cat, looking ready to attack, flinches but the bear moves away without confronting the tiger and the video ends there. The video has been shot by Naman Agarwal and also posted on the Facebook page of one of the lodges in the Tadoba reserve. The encounter has delighted the internet. "That was a giant greeting," said one of the users on Twitter. On Facebook, a user compared the two animals to “Baloo and Sher Khan” from the popular television series The Jungle Book. Baloo, a bear, saves Mowgli, the human child, from the vicious tiger, Sher Khan.
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Post by brobear on Mar 13, 2022 8:09:23 GMT -5
Quote: On Facebook, a user compared the two animals to “Baloo and Sher Khan” from the popular television series The Jungle Book. Baloo, a bear, saves Mowgli, the human child, from the vicious tiger, Sher Khan. *Why do so many people get their information from cartoons and other children's tv shows and movies? In 'The Jungle Book' by Rudyard Kipling, Baloo was said to be a brown bear. Evidently, after the book was published, the author was asked about what kind of bear Baloo is suppose to be. His answer is in 'The Second Jungle Book' where Baloo the big Brown Bear uses capital B's to express the answer. *Note: in Walt Disney's 1967 animated full-length movie, 'The Jungle Book', in typical Walt Disney style, he butchered Kipling's original tale and wrongly proclaimed Baloo as being a sloth bear.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 1:14:47 GMT -5
Question: Can a Bengal tiger kill a sloth bear in a face-to-face confrontation? Answer: Of course he can. Average full-grown male Bengal tiger: 440 pounds. Average full-grown male sloth bear: 242 pounds. The tiger has a weight advantage of roughly 200 pounds. I am both amazed and appalled that some tiger fans take great pride in the extremely rare events when a tiger kills a sloth bear face-to-face. It is not so uncommon for a tiger to kill a sloth bear from ambush. Far less common for the tiger to kill the sloth bear in a 'chase-and-catch' event. But, in the vast majority of cases where the bear ( male or female ) stands his ground and faces the tiger, the tiger walks away to hunt elsewhere. For the tiger, who is hard-wired to be an ambush predator, to fight a bear face-to-face is extremely uncommon. But, when it does happen, the tiger is a shoo-in to win, even though he may earn some battle scars from those wicked claws.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 2:28:28 GMT -5
*Food for thought: as a bear fan, I view it as normal and expected that a tiger can kill a bear when the tiger has a 200-pound weight advantage or, in the case of a sloth she-bear, a weight advantage of 275 pounds. I am neither embarrassed nor angry. It's to be expected. My question is, why do some tiger fans still cling to the ridiculous notion that a tiger can kill a brown bear that normally has a 200-pound weight advantage over the big cat?
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 11:06:52 GMT -5
Here, a sloth bear, appears to be full-grown, sex unknown, can be seen in the background. A tiger fanboy posted this and numerous other videos, claiming here that a "huge male sloth bears sees the tiger and quickly retreats."
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 11:10:26 GMT -5
In this video, the sloth bear shows no fear of the tiger. While the tiger does not attack the bear... well-fed tiger? ... neither back down. Then, it is obvious that the bear takes notice of the people doing the filming and leaves.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 11:25:44 GMT -5
Here is one narrated by a typical tiger fanboy... regardless of the fanboy's wording, this is an angry Mama Bear.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2022 11:31:07 GMT -5
*Food for thought: as a bear fan, I view it as normal and expected that a tiger can kill a bear when the tiger has a 200-pound weight advantage or, in the case of a sloth she-bear, a weight advantage of 275 pounds. I am neither embarrassed nor angry. It's to be expected. My question is, why do some tiger fans still cling to the ridiculous notion that a tiger can kill a brown bear that normally has a 200-pound weight advantage over the big cat? If a fight is carried-out until one or the other is killed, the tiger will kill the sloth bear ( IMO ) maybe 19 out of every 20 such fights. However, the vast majority of tiger-sloth bear confrontations end with the tiger walking away. The ridiculous thing is, the tiger fanboys take such pride in the fact that a tiger can kill a bear that he absolutely dwarfs in size. *Fact: When a full-grown tiger kills a little sloth bear of any age or sex, this does not put a feather into the hat of the tiger fanboy. *I'm still waiting patiently for that one confirmed account of a tiger killing a full-grown male brown bear.
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horribilis
Parictis
“You have no idea how powerful the truth can be.” - Oliver Queen
Posts: 47
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Post by horribilis on May 5, 2022 8:35:43 GMT -5
This is my favorite one so far...
Morphological Forelimb Comparison Between Panthera Tigris And Melursus Ursinus :
Scapula Shape Index:
It's scapula width/length ratio.Higher score indicates greater muscle attachement (infraspinatus, supraspinatus, subscapuralis) on the shoulder joint as well as greater ability to make certain movements like full-functional upper extremity movement including protraction,retraction,elevation,depression,upward rotation,and downward rotation all else being equal.
P.Tigris : 84%
M.Ursinus : 87%
Edge : M.Ursinus
SMI:
Deltopectoral crest length divided by humerus length. Higher score Displays greater mechanical advantage of deltoid and pectoral muscles at the shoulder joint.
P.Tigris : 63%
M.Ursinus : 65%
Edge : M.Ursinus
PFI:
Scapula length divided by Forelimb length(humerus + radius + metacarpal III). Higher score Indicates greater speed of movement via relative proportions of components of the proximal forelimb as well as exertion of greater force from the forelimb.
P.Tigris : 33%
M.Ursinus : 36%
Edge : M.Ursinus
HRI :
It is humerus mediolateral diameter at mid-shaft/humerus length.Robust forelimb bones protect the animal from violent stresses during grappling.
P.Tigris : 9%
M.Ursinus : 10%
Edge : M.Ursinus
HRI2 :
It is humerus anteroposterior diameter at mid-shaft/humerus length. Robust forelimb bones protect the animal from violent stresses during grappling.
P.Tigris : 11%
M.Ursinus : 12%
Edge : M.Ursinus
HCMI :
It is Humeral circumference/articular length Often-used variable in analyses of bone strengths
in locomotion. The higher the ratio is, the thicker the Humeral bone is.
P.Tigris : 30%
M.Ursinus : 33%
Edge : M.Ursinus
HEI:
The HEI index measures the relative size of wrist stabilizing muscles and well as several grasping muscles in area which facilitate prey grasping such as m. extensor digitorum communis, m. extensor digitorum lateralis, m.flexor digitorum superficialis, m. palmaris longus,and m. flexor digitorum profundus. .These muscles also likely help stability, pushing, and agility when legs are on ground.
P.Tigris : 27%
M.Ursinus : 31%
Edge : M.Ursinus
Brachial index :
This measures radius length/humerus length. Lower scores in this ratio indicate greater forelimb muscle mechanical advantage and results in stronger muscles all else being equal.
P.Tigris : 86%
M.Ursinus : 88%
Edge : P.Tigris
Brachial index 2 :
This measures ulna length/humerus length. Lower scores in this ratio indicate greater forelimb muscle mechanical advantage and results in stronger muscles all else being equal.
P.Tigris : 106%
M.Ursinus : 100%
Edge : M.Ursinus
Forelimb Proportion Index :
Length of proximal forelimb relative to length of distal forelimb ((Scapula length + Humerus length)/(Radius length + Metacarpal length)). Higher score Indicates greater degree of morphological specialization for producing large out-forces in the forelimb.
P.Tigris : 148%
M.Ursinus : 159%
Edge : M.Ursinus
OI:
This metrics estimates tricep muscle strength. High values indicate greater ability to push with arms all else being equal. This helps a grappling cat hold prey and also helps a canid push and knock down an opponent. In addition, higher values may indicate greater stability and ability to change direction in a fight as well as greater relative mechanical advantage of the triceps brachii and dorsoepitrochlearis muscles used in elbow extension.
P.Tigris : 25%
M.Ursinus : 22%
Edge : P.Tigris
URI:
This measures ulna anteroposterior diameter at midshaft divided by ulna length. As mentioned above for humerus and radius robusticity, a robust ulna resists stresses on bones during fights and increases resistance to bites to the forelimb.
P.Tigris : 10%
M.Ursinus : 12%
Edge : M.Ursinus
RRI :
This measures radius mediolateral diameter at midshaft divided by radius length. As mentioned above for humerus robusticity, a robust radius resists stresses on bones during fights and increases resistance to bites to the forelimb.
P.Tigris : 8,9%
M.Ursinus : 9,5%
Edge : M.Ursinus
RRI2:
This measures radius anteroposterior diameter at midshaft divided by radius length. As mentioned above for humerus robusticity, a robust radius resists stresses on bones during fights and increases resistance to bites to the forelimb.
P.Tigris : 7,3%
M.Ursinus : 6,6%
Edge : P.Tigris
MANUS:
Manus digit 3 proximal phalanx length divided by metacarpal 3 length.Higher score Indicates greater relative proportions of proximal and distal elements of the manus and size of the palmar surface.
P.Tigris : 49%
M.Ursinus : 60%
Edge : M.Ursinus
Foot Posture:
All else being equal, species that are able to adopt plantigrade foot posture, such as bears,badgers, wolverines, many rodents, spider monkeys, and great apes, should be able to apply greater free moments to the ground than species that are restricted to digitigrade or unguligrade foot posture. Relative to digitigrade foot posture, plantigrade posture improves performance in lateral striking, lateral pushing, downward striking,forward pushing and rearward pulling.
P.Tigris : Digitigrade
M.Ursinus : Plantigrade
Edge : M.Ursinus
In India, tigers do hunt and feed on sloth bears . However, that's mostly due to the tiger's size advantage as most ratios point out to the sloth bear having relatively stronger shoulders, thicker Humeri shafts, larger epicondyles , more robust ulnae, bigger paws, deadlier claws and the ability to produce more force based on its Forelimb Proportions and foot posture while the tiger simply has larger olecrana. Overall, the bear seems to have been a proportionally stronger,more robust and more muscular animal.
Studies used for the above comparison :-
1. Morphological and Certain Morphometrical Study of Scapula of Indian Tiger (Archana Mahapatra,Satish K Pathak,Amarpal Amarpal,A.M. Pawde ; 2016) 2. Postcranial morphology and the locomotor habits of living and extinct carnivores ( Julie A Meachen , Joshua X Samuels , Stacey A Sakai ; 2013) 3. What size were Arctodus simus and Ursus spelaeus (Carnivora: Ursidae)? ( Per Christiansen ; 1999) 4. Ecomorphology of the giant short-faced bears Agriotherium and Arctodus (B. Sorkin ; 2006) 5. Body size of Smilodon (Mammalia: Felidae) (Per Christiansen and John M Harris ; 2005) 6. Morphological convergence of the prey-killing arsenal of sabertooth predators (Julie A. Meachen-Samuels ; 2012) 7. Differential scaling of the long bones in the terrestrial carnivora and other mammals (John EA Bertram and Andrew A Biewner ; 1990) 8. Forelimb Indicators of Prey-Size Preference in the Felidae ( Julie A Meachen , Blaire Van Valkenburgh ; 2009) 9. Osteology and ecology of Megantereon cultridens SE311 (Mammalia; Felidae; Machairodontinae), a sabrecat from the Late Pliocene – Early Pleistocene of Senéze, France ( Per Christiansen and J.Adolfssen ; 2007) 10. Carnivoran postcranial adaptations and their relationships to climate (Julie A Meachen ; 2015) 11. Sexual selection on skeletal shape in Carnivora (Jeremy S Morris , David Carrier ; 2016) 12. The effect of foot posture on capacity to apply free moments to the ground: implications for fighting performance in great apes (David R. Carrier and Christopher Cunningham ; 2017)
Credits - Ghostface Killah
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Post by brobear on May 5, 2022 9:40:52 GMT -5
Reply #458 - awesome.
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Post by yz on May 7, 2022 12:09:04 GMT -5
I want to clarify something :
After a review, it seems that the 117% figure actually belongs to fatalis , not the tiger. Tigris isn't even included in the study. But,sloth bears should still have relatively longer claws than tigers.
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horribilis
Parictis
“You have no idea how powerful the truth can be.” - Oliver Queen
Posts: 47
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Post by horribilis on May 8, 2022 0:19:52 GMT -5
I want to clarify something : After a review, it seems that the 117% figure actually belongs to fatalis , not the tiger. Tigris isn't even included in the study. But,sloth bears should still have relatively longer claws than tigers. Alright ,I've edited it. But I'm pretty sure the conclusion remains the same .
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