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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 22, 2019 6:14:18 GMT -5
Xenosmilus hodsonae.Xenosmilus is a genus of extinct Machairodontinae, or saber-toothed cat. Two fairly intact specimens were found by amateur fossil hunters, in 1983 (1981 by some sources) in the Haile limestone mines in Alachua County, Florida. In 1994 the fossils were examined, and it was decided that the cats were of an entirely new genus, which has been placed under the tribe Machairodontini. They lived about 1 million years ago, but as there are only two specimens of the same age, when they appeared and when they became extinct is unclear. Currently, there is only one species known, X. hodsonae.Physically, the cat measured between 1.7-1.8 m long with a highly muscular body, even more muscular than any other cat alive or dead, and the animal probably weighed around 230-400 kg. Before their discovery, all known saber-toothed cats fell into two general categories. Dirk toothed cats had long upper canines and stout legs. Scimitar toothed cats had only mildly elongated canines, and long legs. Xenosmilus broke these groupings by possessing both stout muscular legs and body, and short broad upper canines. Grizzly Bear - Ursus arctos horribilis The grizzly bear is a large predator that is different from black bears due to a distinctive hump on its shoulders. Grizzly bears have concave faces and long claws about the length of a human finger. Their coloration is usually darkish brown but can vary from very light cream to black. The long guard hairs on their backs and shoulders often have white tips and give the bears a "grizzled" appearance, hence the name "grizzly." The correct scientific name for the species is “brown bear”, but only coastal bears in Alaska and Canada are referred to as such, while inland bears and those found in the lower 48 states are called grizzly bears. Height 3- 3 ½ feet at shoulders Length 6-7 feet Weight Adult males 300 - 850 lbs; females 200 - 450 lbs Top speed 35 mph carnivora.net/xenosmilus-hodsonae-v-grizzly-bear-t3370.htmlFrom Carnivora.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2019 6:28:20 GMT -5
prehistoric-fauna.com/Xenosmilus-hodsonae Xenosmilus hodsonae 7 reviews Xenosmilus (Xenosmilus Martin et al., 2000) Order: Carnivora Family: Felidae Subfamily: †Machairodontinae Tribe: †Homotherini Time period: Pleistocene of North America (The fossils were of Irvingtonian age (1.8 to 0.3 Ma). Size: 2 m in length, 105 cm in height, 170-300 kg of weight. A typical representative: Xenosmilus hodsonae Xenosmilus is a genus of extinct Machairodontinae, or saber-toothed cat. They lived about 1 million years ago, but as there are only two specimens of the same age, when they appeared and when they became extinct is unclear. Currently, there is only one species known, X. hodsonae. Physically, the cat measured between 1.7–1.8 m long with a highly muscular body, even more muscular than any other cat alive or dead, and the animal probably weighed around 200- 300 kg. Only Smilodon populator was noticeably larger amongst the saber-toothed cats. Before their discovery, all known saber-toothed cats fell into two general categories. Dirk toothed cats had long upper canines and stout legs. Scimitar toothed cats had only mildly elongated canines, and long legs. Xenosmilus broke these groupings by possessing both stout muscular legs and body, and short broad upper canines. Found alongside the two skeletons were dozens of peccary bones. It seems likely, with their muscular builds, that X. hodsonae preyed upon peccaries in life.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2019 6:34:22 GMT -5
Result of your conversion: 300 kilograms is equal to 661.39 pounds (avoirdupois) Xenosmilus hodsonae was a really bad-ass cat. I would wager on this cat against Smilodon. Unusual attribute are his big ( not simply long ) teeth designed for grappling. At weight parity against a Pleistocene grizzly, I would give them each a 50-50 ( just an opinion ). I would not wager. Very unlikely that a grizzly ever met this cat.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 22, 2019 12:55:32 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus was very "bear like", He had a very robust skeleton and it seems he was a good grappler. At weight parity, i guess its 50%.
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Post by brobear on Dec 22, 2019 14:13:11 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus was very "bear like", He had a very robust skeleton and it seems he was a good grappler. At weight parity, i guess its 50%.
Even his canine teeth were designed for grappling rather than slicing like other saber-toothed cats. Of course, so are the grizzly's canine teeth, big and deeply rooted.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 22, 2019 23:13:19 GMT -5
The grizzly bear’s shoulder hump, denser bones, and shorter backbone should give it greater strength than the Xenosmilus. While, the Xenosmilus does have shorter and more robust limbs than a grizzly bear as well as superior grappling skills compared to other big cats, it still has inferior grappling skills compared to a grizzly bear. That being said, it is a close match with a mature male grizzly bear having a slight advantage at weight parity. I would like to add: If either animal suffers broken jaws, the grizzly bear will still have a much better chance to survive due to its omnivorous diet and might be more willing to engage in a fight in general.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 22, 2019 23:54:30 GMT -5
Some info of the Xenismilus:
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 23, 2019 0:04:02 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Dec 23, 2019 3:10:57 GMT -5
Xenosmilus was about the size of a lion but more heavily built. Roughly the size of Smilodon fatalis with an upper max weight of about 600 pounds. A more common weight likely around 400 pounds. These cats were probably extinct before the grizzly migrated down south of Canada. But if they were there, a grizzly could likely have displaced this big cat from a carcass. The Pleistocene grizzly *probably averaged near 700 pounds.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 25, 2019 19:17:30 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus might be bulkier than other big cats but if it is lion size, even an extant male grizzly bear would beat it.
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2020 3:32:35 GMT -5
From the first post on this topic - quote: "...Physically, the cat measured between 1.7-1.8 m long with a highly muscular body, even more muscular than any other cat alive or dead, and the animal probably weighed around 230-400 kg." *1.8 meters is equal to 5.91 feet or 5 feet 10.92 inches ( just under 6 feet long ). A grizzly of this length would weigh about 226.80 kg or 500 pounds - tops. I seriously doubt that any cat would weigh more than a grizzly at equal head-and-body length.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 11, 2020 3:40:19 GMT -5
From the size comparison, the grizzly bear is bulkier hence it has more powerful forearms.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 11, 2020 4:23:08 GMT -5
I remember reading through a post on WildFact where an experienced user guessed the Xenosmilus' average weight as being anywhere between ~220-240kg; another work I came across at Carnivora determined an average weight range of 180-230kg This matchup would pretty much be at weight parity then with both of them averaging 450-465lbs.
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Post by theundertaker45 on May 11, 2020 4:49:08 GMT -5
The weight of Xenosmilus was often overestimated in the past, some even claimed it was close to Smilodon populator in size, however, this isn't the case. Xenosmilus had the overall body measurements of a male lion being a bit shorter in terms of body length. Despite its skull looking pretty fearsome it was also rather small on the other hand being ~330-335mm in greatest length; therefore comparable to the skull size of our modern Indochinese tiger.
Here are some morphological indexes comparing the brown bear (right number) with Xenosmilus hodsonae (left number):
Brachial index: 0.7184 - 0.8984 Humeral robustness index: 0.0985 - 0.1081 Humeral epicondylar index: 0.2954 - 0.2997 Crural index: 0.7817 - 0.7572 Femoral robustness index: 0.0984 - 0.0747 Femoral epicondylar index: 0.2295 - 0.21 Tibial robustness index: 0.1048 - 0.0884 Pes length index: 0.2691 - 0.2141 Intermembral index: 0.9583 - 0.9167
While the grizzly bear would most likely possess the more robust and stronger forearms, the Xenosmilus had extremely stout legs which may have helped in keeping the hips steady while rearing up on its hind legs. Apart from that, Xenosmilus was described to be a plantigrade creature. The big question would be if the more robust hindlegs of the Xenosmilus could help him overcome the more robust/stronger forearms of the brown bear by providing additional stabilizing features during a grapple.
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2020 4:57:43 GMT -5
This description makes in sound like Xenosmilus was perhaps the most bear-like of all the cats. Robust and plantigrade. *With this "new-to-me" information, I would give this face-off a 50-50. Against a Russian black grizzly, perhaps about 7 or 8 out of 10 for the bigger bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 11, 2020 6:43:53 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus actually has greater grappling abilities than even the smilodon populator.
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2020 7:15:25 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus actually has greater grappling abilities than even the smilodon populator. IF Xeno... could manage to position his jaws onto the grizzly's neck, the ballgame is over.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 11, 2020 16:01:09 GMT -5
Biting the neck in a face to face fight is not going to be easy especially if the opponent is fighting back. A male grizzly or Ussuri brown bear which does not climb trees is more likely to fight back.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 13, 2020 10:38:46 GMT -5
The grizzly bear (right score) has just a slightly more robust Humerus than the Xenosmilus.
In the study posted by TheUndertaker, Xenosmilus had the most robust Humerus of all cats (Populator and Atrox were not included on that section)
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/38365/thread
It seems that at average these two are very close to weight parity. For now, i still think its 50%.
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Post by brobear on Oct 13, 2020 10:42:58 GMT -5
Quote from reply#13 by theundertaker45 "Xenosmilus had the overall body measurements of a male lion being a bit shorter in terms of body length." This would put Xenosmilus into the same size-range as Smilodon fatalis.
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