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Post by brobear on Jan 23, 2022 7:46:08 GMT -5
The average male Asiatic black bear weighs 270 pounds with a normal max of 440 pounds. The average mature male Amur tiger weighs about 419 pounds and the tigress roughly 267 pounds. As we have no confirmed accounts of a tiger ever ( under any circumstances ) killing a bear of any species as big or bigger than himself, then it stands to reason that not only with brown bears, but with with any bear species, the tiger will always choose a bear smaller than himself. In a face-to-face confrontation, a tiger would not likely fight a full-grown male black bear ( of similar weight or heavier ) unless he feels himself to be cornered and left with no other options. In the case of a black bear, the bear feels the same way. He would prefer to retreat and scurry up a tree than to fight with a tiger. However, if they were to fight face-to-face, it would be a difficult struggle for both animals. In a video of a lion and an Asiatic bear in an enclosure together, the black bear stands his ground while the lion stays busy trying to find an escape. Several times the lion attempts to fight the bear, but is unable to break through the bear's defenses. I therefore believe that, out in the wild, a face-off would end with the tiger, after a very brief struggle, retreating. A tigress would likely have a similar experience with a black she-bear. Against a boar black bear, the tigress would stand very little chance.
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Post by Granolah on Jan 23, 2022 15:55:03 GMT -5
translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://news.chinaxiaokang.com/shehuipindao/shehui/20201027/1067155_1.html Xiaoxinganling found evidence of Siberian tiger eating bears for the first time! Precious image of Siberian tiger eating bear reveals that black bear's abdomen and front part of the neck were eaten by tigers lying on site The Siberian tiger is known as the "King of the Jungle" and is a world-class endangered species. It was once widely distributed in Northeast my country. At the beginning of the 20th century, only a small number of them were distributed in the Xiaoxing'anling and Changbai Mountains. In the scientific investigation in the 1980s, the Siberian tiger was declared extinct in the Xiaoxinganling area. In recent years, with the continuous advancement of ecological protection and restoration work, Xiaoxing'anling has reproduced the scene of "Tiger Howling Mountain Forest". Taipinggou Nature Reserve in Heilongjiang Province is an area where a variety of large and medium-sized beasts, including brown bears and black bears, are concentrated in my country. In recent years, many Siberian tigers have crossed the river from Russia across the river into the Taiping Gully, making the food chain in the reserve more complicated. In this area where a variety of top carnivores are concentrated, with the arrival of the "king of the jungle" Siberian tiger, the original food chain of the forest area has also undergone natural succession adjustments. With the continuous in-depth investigation of animal populations in the ditch, many rare phenomena have also been photographed. Scientific experiments realize the identification of individual black bears for the first time On the screen, a simple and honest black bear is standing upright like a human being, chasing food hanging on the rope with his mouth. During this process, the white pattern on their chests was clearly exposed in the infrared camera lens. This is an experiment of individual identification of black bears conducted by scientific researchers. It is understood that due to the lack of patterns on the surface of black bears that facilitate individual identification, the white patterns on their chests become the only reference that can distinguish individuals. In order to induce them to reveal the patterns on their chests, researchers designed the above experimental program. This extremely cooperative bear is also very popular among scientific researchers. However, shortly afterwards, this cute little bear was hunted and killed by the Siberian tiger and most of it was eaten. Zhang Yingxiang, Taipinggou National Nature Reserve Administration, Heilongjiang: That bear is actually quite a pity, because when we were doing special surveys on black bears and brown bears, there was a bear at this location that was very smart, so our experts called it the world’s most intelligent bear. A smart bear. It is when we experiment with it, it can climb the tree and follow our rope, just like a human command, it is very smart and can catch that food. But the laws of nature can't escape, the weak eat the strong. Tiger eating bear incident tracking Apart from pitying the little bears, the incident of tigers eating bears also aroused the attention of experts. It is understood that black bears are beasts of nature and rarely encounter natural enemies. Prior to this, there was no video record of black bears being hunted by other animals in China. Liu Fang, Associate Researcher of the Chinese Academy of Forestry: Judging from the situation in our country, there is no conclusive evidence that tigers eat black bears in other regions. This is the first time it has been discovered in China. Professor Lu Zhi from Peking University, who has been doing animal research for many years, also said that this is the first time he has heard of it. Professor Lu Zhi, Peking University School of Life Sciences: I have never heard of tigers eating live bears. This is the first time I have heard of it. The reporter conducted further investigations into the tiger eating bear incident. Liu Yanlin was the person who witnessed this process. On the day of the incident, when they were conducting a special study of cats in the woodland, they found tiger footprints on the ground and followed them all the way, hoping to make new discoveries. Liu Yanlin, Heilongjiang Taipinggou National Reserve Management Bureau: We rushed over, and the bear’s abdomen and neck were eaten by the tiger, and the meat was still steaming. The accompanying Zhang Yingxiang and Su Quanyong still felt terrified when they talked about the scene at that time. This has been exposed and refuted on Pablo’s forum.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 1:53:58 GMT -5
Quote: This has been exposed and refuted on Pablo’s forum. *In what topic?
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 4:48:17 GMT -5
The average male Asiatic black bear weighs 270 pounds with a normal max of 440 pounds. More recent information gives the male Amur tiger an average weight of 441 pounds with a normal max of 560 pounds. Any male Amur tiger who ambushes a max-sized black bear is a tiger well above average size. Average Amur tigress weighs 276 pounds with a normal max of 368 pounds. *First fact that must be stated, no tigress is ever going to ambush a full-grown male Asiatic black bear. In a fantasy face-off between a full-grown male Asiatic black bear and a tigress, I would wager heavily on the bear.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 13:33:57 GMT -5
elementy.ru/nauchno-populyarnaya_biblioteka/435020/Tigry_na_Khekhtsire_usloviya_i_perspektivy_sushchestvovaniya In 1992–2000 the tigress kept to the territories of the Bolshekhekhtsirsky reserve and the reserve "Khekhtsir". Her routes ran away from settlements. For example, pos. She bypassed Bychikha about one and a half kilometers. Tiger male A did not approach this village within 5 km. Tiger B behaved similarly. Only the Khabarovsk-Vladivostok automobile and railway lines had to be constantly overcome by the tigers. At this stage, the Three-toed tigress and tiger A ate mainly wild animals, mainly wild boar and red deer. The male often hunted bears, mostly Himalayan ones. In his excrement, wool, small fragments of bones, skin from the paw pads and claws of the Himalayan bear were repeatedly found. In the faeces of tigers, wool and small fragments of bones of a brown bear were noted. Male tigers more often preyed on adults, larger animals, Three-fingered - on young, smaller ones. Only once among the victims was a dog (stray or feral) killed by Trehpala in December 1994 on the outskirts of the forest near the field. Tiger B did not hunt domestic animals during his stay on Khekhtsir.
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Post by brobear on Jan 24, 2022 13:39:04 GMT -5
Quote: The male often hunted bears, mostly Himalayan ones. Male tigers more often preyed on adults, larger animals, Three-fingered ( a tigress ) - on young, smaller ones. *The male tiger preyed upon juvenile brown bears and ( less often ) adult brown she-bears as well as, and more often, Himalayan black bears which average roughly 270 pounds. A tiger never chooses and ambushes a bear as big or bigger than himself.
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Post by Granolah on Jan 26, 2022 20:57:07 GMT -5
Quote: This has been exposed and refuted on Pablo’s forum. *In what topic? Bear vs tiger.
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 1:36:30 GMT -5
We have only a few ( three I'm thinking ) confirmed reports of a tigress ambushing and killing a bear. Each of these a juvenile bear. No tiger of either sex is going to ambush a bear of his or her own size, and certainly not one even larger. That big white 'V' on the black bear's chest is a "flashing red light" which is a danger signal to a tiger. I doubt very seriously that a full-grown male tiger is voluntarily going to go nose-to-nose against a 400+ pound male black bear. One the other side of the coin, the bear will stand his ground only if he has no other options. The bear's first choice of defense is to scurry up a tree. ( IMO ), if the 400+ pound black bear feels cornered, and he is facing a big male tiger, the tiger will walk away.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 3:05:24 GMT -5
Brobear, which type of bear do you believe will beat a tiger in a real fight to death?
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 4:56:00 GMT -5
Brobear, which type of bear do you believe will beat a tiger in a real fight to death? A black bear ( Asiatic or American ) would need a substantial weight advantage ( IMO ) because at weight-parity a tiger is actually bigger than the bear. Black bears are strong animals and not bad fighters, although ( IMO ) not in the same league as a tiger at equal weights. The brown bear is in another league all his own. Even in a weight-parity fight, I would wager on the grizzly over the bigger tiger. In an actual fair fight, equal HB length, - which the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear are basically - ( IMO ) the grizzly will defeat the tiger in roughly 19 out of 20 fights. As for the polar bear, only a dishonest, radical, juvenile tiger fanboy will even attempt to debate such a mismatch. ( All remaining bear species are too small )
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 6:48:36 GMT -5
/\ I agree with most of what you say. The polar bear is too big and strong for any big cat. Most male brown bear subspecies are bigger than tigers and lions.
Regarding weight parity, I support the brown bear if it is male but a male tiger will beat a female brown bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 6:51:35 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 6:52:19 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 6:54:35 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 7:20:09 GMT -5
/\ I agree with most of what you say. The polar bear is too big and strong for any big cat. Most male brown bear subspecies are bigger than tigers and lions. Regarding weight parity, I support the brown bear if it is male but a male tiger will beat a female brown bear. *True, but even there, if it's a face-to-face encounter, that would not be an easy kill for the tiger. Av. male Amur tiger: 200 kg or 441 pounds. / Av. Ussuri brown she-bear: 415 pounds. *Also note: no tiger is going to voluntarily fight a full-grown female brown bear face-to-face. He would take her by ambush or not at all. ( IMO ), if a mother grizzly defending her cubs charges towards a big male tiger ( same as she would a big male grizzly ), that tiger will retreat in a New York minute. *But, as for a fantasy face-off, the male tiger ( with a substantial amount of difficulty ) would defeat the she-bear ( probably about 8 out of 10 ).
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Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2022 7:22:15 GMT -5
Reply #191 - An adult tiger with a bear cub.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 27, 2022 14:43:39 GMT -5
Reply #191 - An adult tiger with a bear cub. I found that on the late AVA forum.
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Post by brobear on Feb 8, 2022 6:22:08 GMT -5
Two big adult tigers vs one much smaller Asiatic black bear. Real fight or staged with the use of tamed captive animals? I'm unsure.
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Post by brobear on Mar 21, 2022 16:29:53 GMT -5
As correctly stated time-and-time again within this forum, there is no confirmed account of a tiger ever killing a bear of any species as heavy or heavier than himself. Average weight of male tigers: Bengal tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds / Amur tiger - 200 kg or 441 pounds. Ussuri black bear - 440 pounds ( 200 kg ) is the normal max. *So, it stands to reason, since the tiger normally chooses a bear roughly 100 pounds ( 45 kg ) less in weight than himself, that a tiger will size-up a black bear before choosing him as potential prey. A boar black bear weighing from 430 pounds and up is probably safe from prowling tigers - all but the very largest male tigers which have a substantial weight advantage over the bear.
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Post by brobear on Apr 19, 2022 1:07:52 GMT -5
Reply #4: 11 November, 2009 - In the first recorded incident of its kind in Bhutan, a Himalayan black bear was killed and eaten by a royal Bengal tiger in the Jigme Dorji national park. The carcass of the bear, with only its head, skin and paws remaining, was discovered by a team of foresters in Domenda, two days walk from Dodena in Thimphu, on November 7 at an altitude of 4,079 m. The kill has thrown up several questions on tigers being found at such high altitudes in winter, the relationship between bears and tigers in Bhutan’s wild and the implications of the tiger’s presence on the snow leopard habitat. “It’s a confirmed kill by a royal Bengal tiger, since there are canine puncture marks on the bear’s throat and spine, as well as tiger claw marks lacerating the bears face and tiger pug marks in the area,” said Phub Tshering, the JDNP park beat officer, who discovered the carcass. He said that there were also signs of struggle between the bear and the tiger with rhododendrons bushes uprooted and claw marks on trees. “Usually the Himalayan black bear is a powerful foe for any tiger and they avoid each other, but here the bear seems to be a juvenile at 2-3 years and hence did not have the muscle and fighting abilities it gets by the time it reaches its adult age of 5 years,” said Dr Sonam Wangyel, the chief forestry officer and wildlife biologist. He said that it was likely that the two animals met accidentally. _________________________________________________________ Reply #6: The only two natural predators of the black bears are the grizzly and, in Asia, the tiger. However, I have thus far found no data proving that a tiger will kill a mature male black bear. No confirmed accounts does not prove that it doesn't happen but without the data we cannot confirm that it does. ___________________________________________________________ Reply #6: In 1956 at the winter quarters in Florida of the Ringling Bothers Circus, a Maine black bear and an African lion were being trained for an act together. The trainer turned away for a moment and the lion jumped the bear, ripping its shoulder open. Whereupon, "the bear reared up and hit the lion a mighty blow with its forepaw. The big cat went backward for several feet and nearly had its shoulder torn off. The lion was injured so badly that it had to be destroyed, but the bear was ready to go back to work within few days". _________________________________________________________________ Reply #35: Although black bears prefer to avoid tigers, they can be extremely tenacious when attacked: Jim Corbett observed a fight between a tiger and the largest black bear he had ever seen, which resulted in the bear managing to chase off the tiger, despite having half its nose and scalp torn off. __________________________________________________________________ Reply #73: But a large, apparently male, Himalayan (or Asiatic black) bear (which we observed visually), like the brown bear that has already been mentioned, clearly did not fear the presence of tigers. He walked along the tiger's tracks and rested in the same wild boar den as did the tiger" (source: sixote-alin.ru/books/ecolog/ch12_en.html). *Note: This is a conglomeration ( as is so often used by tiger fanboys ) of tigers and large male black bears. There has never been a confirmed account of a tiger ever killing a bear - of any species - as heavy as himself.
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