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Post by brobear on Jan 4, 2023 13:34:56 GMT -5
*Note; I find it to be - I will use the words strange and mysterious - that The remains left behind by Boris could not be determined whether it was a moon bear or a brown bear. I would think that a small amount of hair or a single tooth or claw could answer that question. I will add that a three-year-old brown bear cub, at that age when a bear is first out on his own without Mama bear, is a tiger's first choice when out hunting bears. ____________________________________________________________ I will edit and add; I find it strange and mysterious that there has never been a book published on the topic of tigers and bears in the Russian Far East. No other place else on earth has two such top land-based predators roaming within a single environment.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 11, 2023 6:12:30 GMT -5
/\ How often do females get hunted? It seems STP has verified several cases of female Ussuri brown bears taken down by tigers.
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Post by brobear on Jan 11, 2023 6:17:57 GMT -5
/\ How often do females get hunted? It seems STP has verified several cases of female Ussuri brown bears taken down by tigers. A tiger fanboy posted: First-hand testimonies from experienced hunters prove that tigers win most fights against Brown bears. Only two hunters knew of a case where a Brown bear killed a tiger, whereas ELEVEN hunters reported a case of a tiger killing a Brown bear in a fight. Rukovsky stated that in fights between tigers and Brown bears, only in RARE cases the tiger loses. That speaks volumes to the tigers supremacy and dominance over the Brown bear. *Note; these were all cases of mature male tigers ambushing mature female brown bears. Out of 13 such ambushes studied, in only two cases the she-bear managed to turn the tables on the tiger and kill him.
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Post by brobear on Jan 12, 2023 6:25:05 GMT -5
This has been posted more than once sense 2006; but I wish to analyze the data. www.researchgate.net/publication/281480792_Relationship_of_bears_and_tigers_in_the_Russian_Far_East 51 long term monitoring of prey species, habitat type and mitigation measures is proposed to take up for proper conservation and management plan. 2006 Relationship of Bears and Tigers in the Russian Far East Ivan Seryodkin1, Yuri Petrunenko1, Dale Miquelle2, 1Pacific Geographical Institute, FEB RAS, Vladivostok, Russian Federation; 2Wildlife Conservation Society, New York, NY, Contact: yurbarius@rambler.ru In the southern Russian Far East, brown bears (Ursus arctos) and Asiatic black bears (U. thibetanus) co-exist with Amur tigers (Panthera tigris altaica). In the Sikhote-Alin Reserve the relationships between these three species were studied in 1992-2013 during extensive telemetry and snow-tracking efforts. Bears often fed on Amur tiger kills. Of the 353 tiger kills we found during the non-denning period for bears (April-November) 62 kills (17.6%) were used by bears including 37 (60%) brown bear, 9 (14%) by Asiatic black beer and 16 (26%) of uncertain bear species. The proportion of tiger prey scavenged by bears is likely higher than what our data indicate, since utilization by scavengers was not always complete when we visited kills. Often bears fed on kills after tigers abandoned them. However, in at least in 8 cases (12.9%) bears displaced tigers from a kill, and in 7 cases (11.3%) both tigers and bears utilized a kill during the same period. Analysis of prey items revealed that bears represent 3.4% in the diet of tigers in the non-denning period (1.7% for each species of bears). In 44 recorded encounters between tigers and bears, the tiger initiated contact in 12 cases while the bear initiated contact in 8 cases, while in all other cases the individual initiating contact could not be determined. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Quote: Of the 353 tiger kills we found during the non-denning period for bears (April-November) 62 kills (17.6%) were used by bears including 37 (60%) brown bear, 9 (14%) by Asiatic black beer and 16 (26%) of uncertain bear species. The proportion of tiger prey scavenged by bears is likely higher than what our data indicate, since utilization by scavengers was not always complete when we visited kills. *Conclusion: Bears scavenge tiger kills more often than what biologists know of. Full-grown male brown bears probably displace tigers of every sex, age, and size. Quote: Often bears fed on kills after tigers abandoned them. However, in at least in 8 cases (12.9%) bears displaced tigers from a kill, and in 7 cases (11.3%) both tigers and bears utilized a kill during the same period. *Conclusion: When the tiger sees a large male brown bear approaching, he will relinquish the carcass over to the bigger stronger bear. Thus, the tiger abandons the carcass. The tiger and the bear will sometimes utilize a kill during a time period; meaning that when the bear is away, the tiger can eat.
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Post by brobear on Jan 13, 2023 6:54:54 GMT -5
Reply #247 at: Tiger vs Brown Bear - 21st century by Granolah Q:Здравствуйте, я недавно слышал, что в заповеднике была битва тигра с медведем У вас есть больше информации об этом медведе? Reserve:Здравствуйте!Медведя звали Миша, кличка «Косолапый», возраст примерно 3 года Подвид бурый. В ходе сражения тигр не пострадал. Начальник отдела охраны Милежик М.П. С Уважением, филиал Большехехцирский ФГ БУ"Заповедное Приамурье' Translation: Q:Hello, I heard recently that there was a tiger-bear fight in the reserve Do you have any more information about this bear? Reserve: Hello, the bear's name was Misha, and he was about 3 years old. The tiger wasn't hurt in the battle. M.P. Milezhik, Head of Protection Department. Sincerely yours, Bolshekhetsirskiy branch of the Federal Wildlife Refuge of the Priamur'e Nature Conservation Area. ______________________________________________________________________________ Another "tiger killing full-grown male brown bear" story put into the light and disproven.
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Post by brobear on Feb 12, 2023 11:31:17 GMT -5
Siberian Tiger v Eurasian Brown Bear - A very intelligent and highly respected poster gives a good answer to a parasite's Nov. 2022 conglomeration... Quote: "This account only implies the kill took time and the bear could struggle, again it could be face to face, but it could have not been face to face.
The only actual face to face account I could find is V. Tvilinev's one. He actually witnessed the fight in person and describes it, it was between a female Ussuri brown bear with a cub and a large tiger that ended in the tiger killing the bear, but not being even able to walk. It lasted 20 minutes. Note that sows with cubs are generally weaker and smaller than those without due to having to share their food with and take care of their cubs. It's described that the tiger was on top for most of the fight, but struggled to kill the bear which funnily enough is exactly what happens in that "extreme outlier" video you keep dismissing. While the tiger won and crushed it's opponent the account absolutely does not support the idea that the tiger could defeat a male Eurasian brown bear much larger that itself. Why did you not post this one instead of the two uncertain accounts with no detailed descriptions available?"
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Post by brobear on Feb 12, 2023 11:41:58 GMT -5
About #4586... I will assume that this V. Tvilinev was an eye-witness to Dales clash with the large brown she-bear as the "20 minute fight" is now well known on animal forums. Astonishing that this eye-witness was never mentioned before now. This short piece by the very knowledgeable poster, RedMatter, does not say how the fight started, therefore I will assume it started when Dale ambushed the she-bear. 1- "but not being even able to walk." *I assume that this means that the tiger was so exhausted after the fight that it took some time before he could stand and walk. 2- Note that sows with cubs are generally weaker and smaller than those without due to having to share their food with and take care of their cubs. *Also note that pound-for-pound a she-bear is not as strong as an adult male bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 13, 2023 6:24:47 GMT -5
Warsaw(waveriders) should come from Poland, because Warsaw is the capital of Poland. He seems to be able to write papers. He even wrote rumors into his papers. This paper has tampered with Dale's original text to quote, which is crazy. The last one is too big Credited to Bruceenzo from Wildfact.
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Post by brobear on Feb 13, 2023 6:42:57 GMT -5
Fantastic OldGreenGrolar. Nothing knew here, but still a great post. It's always great to see our claims coming from the mouths of biologists.
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Post by brobear on Feb 13, 2023 6:50:44 GMT -5
And once more:
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 13, 2023 7:09:30 GMT -5
/\ Thank you. Just for clarity, Warsaw and Waveriders are not the same poster. The former is a bear enthusiast and the latter is more like a lion enthusiast since the late AVA days.
Warsaw also told us on Carnivora that he did not make this research. Some researchers used Warsaw as reference. King Kodiak has posted it (the top article) sometime ago somewhere here and on his forum.
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Post by brobear on Feb 13, 2023 8:22:50 GMT -5
/\ Thank you. Just for clarity, Warsaw and Waveriders are not the same poster. The former is a bear enthusiast and the latter is more like a lion enthusiast since the late AVA days. Warsaw also told us on Carnivora that he did not make this research. Some researchers used Warsaw as reference. King Kodiak has posted it (the top article) sometime ago somewhere here and on his forum.
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 14, 2023 8:46:17 GMT -5
I remember that when we posted this, all tigerfans would say it fake as written by warsaw. But, i always defended it and further research showed that warsaw didn't wrote any of the thing. He was just simply "quoted from carnivora" by an author as the reference link showed. Furthermore, warsaw isn't mentioned in authors and he does not even have a profile on researchgate. Warsaw's rejection further proofs that he had nothing to do with it. So its reliable, since the authors are biologists and warsaw is simply quoted by them, since they might have seen his statement quite true. Its a recent and great scientific research since it simply mentions our claims told by biologists. And that why it remains my frequentky used quote in this thread: beargorillarealm.proboards.com/thread/201/brown-bears-dominate-eat-tigers
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2023 8:54:28 GMT -5
I will also add; Warsaw is extremely knowledgeable on the topic of bears. More so than and poster currently on any wild animal forum. That is why he was quoted.
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 14, 2023 11:25:27 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2023 13:29:31 GMT -5
From Reply #4595 Proper management of brown bear populations (Ursus arctos) requires knowledge of their ecology, including space use. Brown bear spatial patterns are particularly poorly understood in the Russian Far East, due to lack of telemetry studies. The aim of this work was to study space use by brown bears in the Sikhote-Alin region. From 1993 to 2002, we used VHF radiocollars to collect spatial data from nine males (eight adults and one juvenile) and six females (five adults and one juvenile) in the Middle Sikhote-Alin. Fixed Kernel home range size estimates were larger for males (891.34 ± 346.99 km2) than for females (349.94 ± 543.06 km2). The juvenile home range sizes were 237.24 and 333.64 km2 for the male and female, respectively. The maximum home range size was for the two-year area of one male (9217.36 km2). The core area sizes varied over a wide range (6.12–358.45 km2). The structure and location of home ranges and their core areas depended upon the seasonal habitat selection of bears, as well as the distribution, abundance, and accessibility of foraging resources. Bears’ home ranges overlapped between males and females, as well as between same sex individuals. The results of this work are important for the management of the brown bear population in the Sikhote-Alin Daily activity patterns of brown bears were monitored using radiotelemetry from 1993 to 2006, in the Sikhote-Alin Biosphere Reserve and adjacent areas. Outside of the denning period, bears were active for approximately 52% of the 24-hour period. Males were more active (64% of total time) than females (51%). Brown bears in the Sikhote-Alin are diurnal and crepuscular, but switch to a nocturnal pattern in areas of high anthropogenic influence. During the summer months, daily activity patterns were influenced by precipitation, cloud cover, and air temperature.
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Post by Granolah on Feb 14, 2023 17:15:43 GMT -5
I will also add; Warsaw is extremely knowledgeable on the topic of bears. More so than and poster currently on any wild animal forum. That is why he was quoted. How long has he been in the debate?
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Post by brobear on Feb 14, 2023 19:36:19 GMT -5
I started back in 2000. Warsaw was already active and very knowledgeable at that time.
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 18, 2023 10:13:14 GMT -5
Warsaw(waveriders) should come from Poland, because Warsaw is the capital of Poland. He seems to be able to write papers. He even wrote rumors into his papers. This paper has tampered with Dale's original text to quote, which is crazy. View AttachmentView AttachmentThe last one is too big Credited to Bruceenzo from Wildfact. We shouldn't doubt the reliability of this quote even if Warsaw is quoted since its written by well educated scientists. See here: Adrian Marciszak a,*, Grzegorz Lipeckib, Kamilla Pawłowskac, Gwidon Jakubowskid, Urszula Ratajczak-Skrzatek a, Katarzyna Zarzecka-Szubi´ nska a, Adam Nadachowskib aDepartment of Palaeozoology, Institute of Environmental Biology, Faculty of Biological Sciences, University of Wrocław, Sienkiewicza 21, 50-335, Wrocław, Poland bInstitute of Systematics and Evolution of Animals, Polish Academy of Sciences, Sławkowska 17, 31-016, Krak´ ow, Poland cDepartment of Palaeoenvironmental Research, Institute of Geology, Adam Mickiewicz University, Krygowskiego 12, 61-680, Pozna´ n, Poland dMuseum of Earth, Polish Academy of Science, Aleja Na Skarpie 20-27, 00-488, Warszawa, PolandEven they say that their information is reliable since it comprises the contribution of many researches and data: Author's contributionAll information, which provide readers where they can obtain the research data required to reproduce the work reported in the manuscript like status of the material, its location, collection numbers etc are provided within the manuscript and both appendixes. All material, if currently present, is available to study in particular museums and private collections. Authors’ contributions All authors have made substantial contributions to this submission. The individual contributions of each co-author is as follow: AM: introduction, morphological and metrical studies, description of bones and partially of sites, morphological and metrical results and partially in discussion, Figs. 2–18, Tables 1 and 2, and Appendixes; GL: partially description of sites and materials, and partially in metrical and morphological results and discussion, Tables 1 and 2, and Appendixes; KP: partially description of sites and materials, and partially metrical and morphological results and discussion, Tables 1 and 2, and Appendixes; GJ: partially description of sites and materials, and partially discussion; UR-S: Fig. 1, and partially metrical and morphological results and discussion; KZ-S: partially metrical and morphological results and discussion; AN: partially metrical and morphological results and discussion. Declaration of competing interest The authors declare that they have no known competing financial interests or personal relationships that could have appeared to influence the work reported in this paper. Acknowledgements We are very grateful to O. Kovalchuk for linguistic improvements of the manuscript, and two anonymous reviewers for their helpful critical comments and suggestions. We are very grateful to Mrs Robert Szybiak, Tatiana Woroncowa-Marcinowska, Waldemar Wiązek and Jerzy Dąbrowski for granting us access to the material and Prof. Piotr Wojtal for sharing unpublished AMS date. This work was supported by the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of Poland (project 1076/S/IB´S/2017) and internal grant for young scientists by the Faculty of Biological Sciences (project no. 2224/M/IB´S/17). Our research was also supported by (1) the grant of KBN (State Committee for Scientific Research) project 303 078 32/2589 awarded to A. Nadachowski; (2) the grant of Ministry of Sciences and Higher Education of Poland, by the Institute of Systematics and Evolution of Animals, Polish Academy of Sciences, project No. 2 P04C 081 30 awarded to P. Wojtal; (3) the grant from the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of Poland (N N307 050139), project “Biochronology of the Pleistocene lion Panthera spelaea (Goldfuss, 1810) from Poland in overall view of the lineage evolution” awarded to G. Lipecki; (4) grant from the Ministry of Science and Higher Education (N N307 050139) awarded to K. Pawłowska.www.researchgate.net/publication/347492257_The_Pleistocene_lion_Panthera_spelaea_Goldfuss_1810_from_Poland_-_A_review
So according to them their work by reviewed by many other scientist and is supported by scientific society before being published. If that statement wasn't true, so it must not have survived the critical comments and improvements which further makes this search reliable. They also said that they added no personally statements to this work, meaning all they posted is true. See here, warsaw is simply quoted only by scientists: So, overall, its reliable. Only those who want to escape the truth are ready to oppose it. As we see, biologists in 2022, accept the bear's dominance over tigers.
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Post by Montezuma on Feb 18, 2023 10:34:33 GMT -5
I have found a very insane thing that would surprise you all. I emailed the head author of this publication asking about the authenticity of the statements of brown bear and tiger in his work. He said that its true. Meaning its reliable and its also true that large bears dominate tigers. He even told that huge bears even decapitated tigers! So, finally, its proved that this report's statements about tiger and bear reaction is true, confirming our claims and authentizing the lines. Down is the email. His english is a bit mixed with polish so i first write it in better form: "Thank you for not Word. Yes, it's true that Bear's large specimens, +300kg usually almost always dominate the tigers. There are cases where a huge brown bear simply decapitated a tiger. The same was true in the Pleistocene, but there the giant male Pantera spelaea fossilis van Reach weighs more than 600kg, and the large male Ursus arctos priscus often exceeds 1000kg, and the largest almost 1500kg. Imagine the enctouters from these monsters.Big hugs"I can hear someone weeping. Lol.
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