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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 8:10:19 GMT -5
In this thread I am going to prove that who is the best killer in these three beasts. I am going to take african lion, grizzly bear and bengal tiger because these have killed the larger bovids that are Cape buffalo, American bison, Spanish fighting bull and gaur compared to their other respective subspecies. The main purpose is to show that which Is the most dangerous bovid among these and which predator has killed the most dangerous bovid. Bengal tigers have killed Gaurs. African lion have killed Cape buffaloes. Grizzly bears have killed American bison and Spanish fighting bull. So lets see the most dangerous bovid. Size and weightCape buffalo:- Length, 2.5m Weight, 300-900kg American bison:- Length, 2.8m Weight, 460-990kg Gaur:- Length, 2.5-3.3m Weight, 650-1000kg Spanish fighting bull:- Weight, 408.2- 700kg Speed and StrengthIn strength, I think the cape buffalo is more powerful than all others. Spanish bull is not much powerful compared to others. American bison and gaur can rival the strength of the cape buffalo because of their bulk and size. In speed the Spanish fighting bull is unmatched. As we can that it has an athletic look and is very quick than other bovids. They have faster reflexes and can attack or move more fastely. Gaurs and african buffalo are bad in agility and both are slow. Bisons although can be agile but not as much as the spanish bull. AggressionSpanish fighting bulls are the most agressive bovids. They are said to be unique bovids and are always ready to fight. You may say that the buffalo is aggressive too, yes it is but unlike the fighting bull, the buffalo runs away rather than fight whereas Spanish bulls are always ready to fight and choose to attack instead of fleeing away. Gaurs and bisons are be aggressive but not as much as the previous two. Gaurs near me are clumsy and lack aggressive which does not makes them much dangerous whereas bison can be more aggressive and dangerous than gaurs. HornsOne may say that the cape buffalo's horns are the most dangerous but I think that the Spanish bull's horn are more dangerous when attacking because:-
(A) Spanish bulls horns are sharp and pointed forward. When they attack so they down their heads which makes their horns to pierce direct to the victim in the front. (B) Cape buffalo have largers and thicker horns but the problem is with their structure. Unlike, the bull's forward pointed horns, the buffalo horns are pointed inwards which means that they cannot pierce their horns in the victim as effectively as bull horns can do. You can see the differences In images. Buffaloes horns can only Hit hard but cannot pierce. (C) Gaur horns are by the way a little better than than those of the Buffalo because they are not pointed inward and are also thick. (D) American bison horns are not useful and dangerous but their large heads can be really dangerous and can break bones with their attack. ◆Spanish bulls also have a unique thick neck on their shoulders called morillo which gives them more power to pierce horns with more impact. Other bovids lack this blessing.◆
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 15, 2021 8:21:49 GMT -5
I like to add one thing: Bisons seem to be the best in head butting.
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Post by tom on Feb 15, 2021 8:29:12 GMT -5
I will just add that Spanish Fighting bulls are not wild bovids and are bred specifically for fighting, only breeding the best to the best. In many ways the same is true for Rodeo Bulls, breeding the best to the best. For this reason it may not be fair comparison to say they are the most aggressive. Cape Buffalo and even Wild Bison bulls can be extremely aggressive when threatened and or during the mating season. However, I do understand your point.
So who is the best Killer of your list of predators in your opinion Megalith?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 8:45:09 GMT -5
So who is the most dangerous bovid? I will go for the bull.
1. The bull is very aggressive and will always attack. It is more fearless compared to other bovids.
2. Bull have more dangerous horns for predators compared to other bovids. Bison have large head but small horns, cape buffalo horns are inwards and gaur are only a little better. Bull have a morillo to pierce horns with more impact.
3. An other thing that makes the bull more dangerous is its agility which other bovids lack. With their agility they can easily move fast to defend against the predator and can losen the grip of the predator. Agility makes them dangerous also .
Although bulls can be defeated by other bovines but I think the bull is more dangerous than others for the bear, lion or tiger because horns are more effective, bull is very aggressive and have agility to defend and attack onbmany ways.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 8:53:20 GMT -5
Now the final answer that who is the best killer, lion , bear or tiger?
The answer is:- The bear! Yes, because we have reason. Grizzly bears have killed and mostly won from spanish bulls (the most dangerous) and from bisons.
Gaurs and buffaloes are in the later dangerous category which are contested by lions and tigers.
Tigers have killed gaurs but in ambush. In fair attack, tiger has zero chance. Tiger has zero point.
Buffaloes are killed by lions but in number advantage. If a buffalo stands its ground so the lion has zero chances. Lion also has zero points.
Bears have killed bulls in a fight and bisons.
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Post by tom on Feb 15, 2021 8:58:49 GMT -5
One point to keep in mind. With the exception of maybe the Grizzly, the large Cats will not likely attack these bovids head on. Watch Lions on a bull Cape Buffalo and they generally are attacking from the rear or make a calculated attempt to the throat. They generally steer clear of the head and horns and not risk injury if at all possible. Sometimes the Buffalo can turn the tables and get lucky though and gore a Lion which would seriously turn the odds in a hurry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 9:13:14 GMT -5
Conslusion, that who is a better killed compared with bovids.
BEAR
Have killed spanish bull. 1 point
Have killed bison. 1 point
Can kill the slower buffalo. 0.5 point
Can kill the gentle gaur. 0.5 point
LION
Can kill bull. 1 point
Can kill bison. 0 point
Can kill gaur. 1 point
Have killed buffalo. 0.5 point
TIGER
Can kill bull. 0 point
Can kill bison. 0 point
Can kill buffalo. 0 point
Can kill gaur. 0 point
Calculation:-
Bear:- 3, Lion:- 1.5, Tiger:- 0
Lion has some point because it is very courageous and can kill the clumsy gaur who lacks aggression and agility.
Tiger is not courageous and cannot do good In face off so it stands not chance against anyone.
I would like brobear, King Kodiak, the undertaker45, Arctodussimus and tom etc to comment and vote in the poll.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 9:18:03 GMT -5
I will just add that Spanish Fighting bulls are not wild bovids and are bred specifically for fighting, only breeding the best to the best. In many ways the same is true for Rodeo Bulls, breeding the best to the best. For this reason it may not be fair comparison to say they are the most aggressive. Cape Buffalo and even Wild Bison bulls can be extremely aggressive when threatened and or during the mating season. However, I do understand your point. So who is the best Killer of your list of predators in your opinion Megalith? Bear is the best killer. We know that cats attack from rear but in this fight, all cats and bears are forced to fight head-on. No ambush.
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 9:18:52 GMT -5
The only advantage that I can see that the Spanish fighting bull has against a predator over the other bovids is speed; but the others are not slow. The Spanish fighting bull would also have one disadvantage in this contest; a complete lack of experience against a large predator. In fact, because of the money value of these bulls, the Spanish bull will very likely have a complete lack of experience in any kind of a real fight. As Tom pointed out, a lion or a tiger will ( if at all possible ) attack the bull from the side or from the rear, even if they start out facing each other. According to the book, "California Grizzly" the brown bear defeated the bull more often than not. I voted for the Cape buffalo. I doubt that the Spanish bull has any aggression advantage over that monster. I believe that I have witnessed only one event ( on video ) of a lone lion killing a bull buffalo. I suspect that in a one-on-one fight, the bull buffalo is victorious more often than not. He knows how to use those curled horns; which can also act as a battering ram.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 9:26:20 GMT -5
I think bull is more dangerous because although the bull lacks the bulk and strength but it has more aggression, agility and effective horns compared to other bovids.
Agility can help to move on many moves to aatack and defend with horns. Fastness of the bull can also not give a good grip to the predator.
Compared to other, these bulls are always ready to fight. As described eariler than the bull has better horns for piercing.
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 9:34:53 GMT -5
My theory; the curved horns are an adaptation to fighting against numbers; both spotted hyenas and lions. He can swing his head from side-to-side catching adversaries. And again; I disagree that the Spanish bull is any more aggressive than a Cape buffalo. And of course; experience is a big advantage. I will add also that the buffalo is ( very likely ) much more durable than the Spanish bull.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 15, 2021 10:11:12 GMT -5
Well i just deleted my post. You can delete yours also. But i just posted the link to a thread. I edited and gave the lion one point against bull. I think that's fair bro. Because the accounts exists (reliable or unreliable, that's another story), but they exist, same as the bears accounts. What we do know for a fact is that tigers dont have those accounts, they refused to fight most times or got killed by bulls or buffaloes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2021 10:28:25 GMT -5
However, we all agree that a bear is the best killer.
Note a thing. King kodiak and you brobear showed my mistake and I accepted it. Kodiak showed the lion winning from bulls accounts and I accepted that although I am a bearfan. I bet that instead of me or any other bearfan,if there was a tigerfan boy so he will just say that "no all lion vs bull accounts are fake" without any reason or something.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 15, 2021 10:31:33 GMT -5
Spanish fighting bulls are not wild animals, so its hard to vote for them here. In a captive fight yes, most likely i would vote for them as they have been bred specifically to fight.
I voted for the American bison. Its much larger on average than the Cape buffalo and on average its very close with the gaur. Mature wood bison average around 2000 lbs. In my opinion, the bison has a larger neck than the other 2 bovids, thus this would make it harder to kill for a lion or tiger. Bison can also be very aggressive if threatened. So i vote for the historic bovid, the Great American bison.
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Post by tom on Feb 15, 2021 10:35:10 GMT -5
I voted for Cape Buffalo and for this very specific reason. They are used to fighting off large predators, it can be an everyday challenge with Lions and Hyenas constantly prowling the Serengeti. These days Bison really are not bothered too much from Grizzlies and the real threat comes from Wolf Packs. But a Wolf is no Lion. I assume these battles would be hypothetically in the wild and not in the arena.
So I vote Cape Buffalo on sheer experience.
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 10:44:14 GMT -5
I would place the bull yak above all four bovines listed.
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Post by tom on Feb 15, 2021 10:49:06 GMT -5
One thing we have not established yet here in this debate. Are we talking one on one, meaning 1 Lion or 1 Tiger or 1 Grizzly against 1 Bull or 1 Bison or 1 Buffalo?
Because if were talking one on one with an adult male in each species then I'm afraid the predators are likely to lose most of these confrontations one on one unless something very miraculous happened
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 15, 2021 10:49:27 GMT -5
I would place the bull yak above all four bovines listed. I would have to agree. This is a beast.
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Post by brobear on Feb 15, 2021 12:20:15 GMT -5
One thing we have not established yet here in this debate. Are we talking one on one, meaning 1 Lion or 1 Tiger or 1 Grizzly against 1 Bull or 1 Bison or 1 Buffalo? Because if were talking one on one with an adult male in each species then I'm afraid the predators are likely to lose most of these confrontations one on one unless something very miraculous happened This would always be a one-on-one against a grizzly or a tiger. But yes, the rule would apply with a lion as well. I agree that the big cat would lose more often as not. The grizzly would have to be a lean 1,000 pounds or better ( IMO ) to stand a 50/50.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 15, 2021 12:35:44 GMT -5
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