|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 26, 2019 13:29:29 GMT -5
www.allgrizzly.org/front-limbs - Courtesy from Warsaw. Of all the morphologic features that typify bears, the front limbs and associated skeletal infrastructure are the most distinctive. They are also diagnostic of the bear life strategy (see Life strategy). No other terrestrial vertebrate of its size--certainly no other large carnivore--has front limbs that are as flexible, powerfully built, and mounted with such dexterous paws. Nor do any comparable-sized carnivores have such out-sized claws...claws which are clearly "designed" to be powered by the muscular arms and shoulders to either climb trees, extract food from a durable matrix (i.e., dig), or grapple with and subdue large prey such as seals, moose, and elk. What follows is a summary of the evidence produced over the years elaborating on and substantiating the preceding thumbnail sketch. You will have to forgive me for the abundance that follows, but it is reflective of the extent to which I see this aspect of bear morphology as key to understanding the overall bear life strategy--as well as niche. Yup, thats an awesome report. Ursids clearly have the strongest and most flexible front limbs of any predator, Especially brown bears. We had that report here:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/19734/thread
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 26, 2019 13:44:45 GMT -5
Add to this the report in the shaggygod forum about how the grizzly's front paw absorbs impact. Then consider the shoulder hump. Both the shoulder hump of muscles ( developed to give the bear maximum digging ability ) and the paws being evolved to absorb impact and used as shovels to dig into hard earth, combine to give the grizzly a devastating paw-strike.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 26, 2019 13:59:53 GMT -5
Add to this the report in the shaggygod forum about how the grizzly's front paw absorbs impact. Then consider the shoulder hump. Both the shoulder hump of muscles ( developed to give the bear maximum digging ability ) and the paws being evolved to absorb impact and used as shovels to dig into hard earth, combine to give the grizzly a devastating paw-strike. Not only that, but bears have more powerful biceps muscles than felids.
"Among these traits, the intertubercular groove morphology has interesting functional implications: the tendon of the muscle biceps brachii runs into this groove, with the transversal humeral ligament (developed between both the greater and the lesser tubercles) keeping the tendon in place inside the groove (Evans 1993; Barone 2010). As described previously, the shape of the intertubercular groove is similar in canids, felids, and amphicyonids in general (thus including M. anceps), it being markedly different from that of ursids, which have a much more closed, canal-like groove (Fig. 6). Taylor (1974) associated this character with both the power of the muscle biceps brachii and the degree of usage: a clearly defined intertubercular groove, such as that of ursids, would allow a better control of movements, and probably a powerful muscle. According to Taylor (1974) the nandiniid Nandinia binotata, which shows an ursid-like groove, employs this muscle to a much greater degree than the viverrid Civettictis civetta (with a much more open groove) and this would be related to the greater climbing ability of the former."
redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157211627215616&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k27xba5e0102ylrr000MA5ageh9tv&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F540%2Fstrength-girth-comparison-bears-cats%3Fpage%3D19&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F264931438_Comparative_Anatomy_of_the_Shoulder_Region_in_the_Late_Miocene_Amphicyonid_Magericyon_anceps_Carnivora_Functional_and_Paleoecological_Inferences&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D3&title=Strength%20and%20Girth%20Comparison%20of%20Bears%20and%20Big%20Cats%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=Siliceo%20et%20al%20(2014)
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 26, 2019 14:13:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 26, 2019 14:33:44 GMT -5
Science daily magazine. Science Newsfrom research organizations Flat-footed fighters: Heel-down posture in great apes and humans confers a fighting advantage Summary: Walking on our heels, a feature that separates great apes, including humans, from other primates, confers advantages in fighting, according to a new study. Although moving from the balls of the feet is important for quickness, standing with heels planted allows more swinging force, suggesting that aggression may have played a part in shaping our stance. Another hypothesis, which Carrier and colleague Christopher Cunningham of the University of Georgia explored, is that a plantigrade stance allows the arms more striking force by increasing the torque, or rotational force that can be applied to the ground. Full article: redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_157211837928311&key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&libId=k27ynock0102ylrr000MA5ageh6v3&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F535%2Fadvantages-disadvantages-face-off%3Fpage%3D5&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2017%2F02%2F170215084113.htm&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fdomainofthebears.proboards.com%2Fthreads%2Frecent%3Fpage%3D7&title=Advantages%20and%20Disadvantages%20in%20a%20face-off.%20%7C%20Domain%20Of%20The%20Bears&txt=www.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2017%2F02%2F170215084113.htmBears are "plantigrade" while big cats are "digitigrade", this means bears have more swinging force and a FIGHTING ADVANTAGE.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 5:06:23 GMT -5
Another advantage to consider: stability. Experiment. Take a dining room table and a park bench. Each made of wood. With one hand tip them each over. You will find than the broader table is more difficult to tip over than the narrow bench. See where this is leading... ?
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 30, 2019 6:07:29 GMT -5
Another advantage to consider: stability. Experiment. Take a dining room table and a park bench. Each made of wood. With one hand tip them each over. You will find than the broader table is more difficult to tip over than the narrow bench. See where this is leading... ? Yeah i see. By the way, Verdugo found that the postscapular fossa is more developed in ursids than in felids:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/19741/thread
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 14, 2019 9:23:33 GMT -5
BEARS by Ben East:
Whatever he weighs, the grizzly is a low-slung, thickset and very muscular animal. His legs are short and stout almost beyond belief. His heavy head is supported by a burly neck thicker than the width of his skull, and the whole impression he creates is one of great power. He lives up to his appearance too, and his strength is hard to believe. The early records tell of grizzlies dragging off the carcass of a full-grown buffalo ( bison ) bull. He handles a domestic steer, a dead moose or bull elk with no difficulty. I know of one case where a bear took a four-hundred-pound elk up and around a steep mountain for a quarter mile and finally dragged it through a series of rough washes before stopping to feed. Four or five men could hardly have duplicated that feat of strength.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Aug 19, 2020 10:55:49 GMT -5
This has been posted before; but also difficult to locate. So, here is a repeat: www.mytakeontv.com/2009/05/16/exploring-grizzly-bears-with-casey-anderson/ What is something that you learned in spending the year with Grizzlies that has affected your daily life going forward? Insight from Brutus: if it is physically possible, then it is done. If not, it isn’t. After weighing a boulder in at one ton, we used a tractor to lift it to place a piece of salmon under it. Soon after, Brutus caught the scent of the salmon and walked to the boulder. In one swift move, he pushed the boulder to the side and happily devoured the salmon. It dawned on me as I stood next to my friend: he doesn’t worry much; he is not handicapped by his mind. If his body isn’t capable of doing it, then that is his only limitation. He does not sit there and contemplate, or make excuses; he just does all he can. Then goes and takes a nap in the sunshine. How great would it be if we could all live that way?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 20, 2020 6:42:08 GMT -5
This photo is an "Oldie Goldie" but is ( IMO ) the best picture I have seen representing the raw lean brawn of a brown bear.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 20, 2020 22:15:34 GMT -5
How heavy do you think Oldie Goldie weighs brobear ?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Nov 21, 2020 3:45:35 GMT -5
How heavy do you think Oldie Goldie weighs brobear ? No one can look at a still picture without any reference objects around to compare with and give a weight estimate. There have been several - fanboys - on various sites who claimed to have this 'super power'; but no one ever took their claims seriously.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 11:45:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kesagake on Jan 27, 2021 7:23:01 GMT -5
Can I ask one thing? Is that true, Grizzly is only 5 times stronger than a man?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 7:48:19 GMT -5
Can I ask one thing? Is that true, Grizzly is only 5 times stronger than a man? No. First of all, it is really impossible to accurately measure the strength of any particular species of animal. In one experiment, where a big boar brown bear was put through some various exercises, including rolling over and over a big dumpster, it was stated that the bear proved to be at least five times the strength of a man. However, it was also stated that the bear never really exerted himself. Just how does one go about making an animal use 100% of his physical strength? Casey Anderson once used heavy equipment to place a one-ton ( 2000 pounds ) boulder on top of some fish. Then he released his pal Brutus ( a 900 pound grizzly ) who, while showing no signs of effort, moved the boulder and ate the fish. It is also impossible to accurately and precisely measure animal intelligence. This can probably be said for measuring bite-force as well.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 10:35:32 GMT -5
Well, we have to remember that these are just animals, they are not robots or T-rexes. So without analyzing too much, if someone tells me a bear is around 5 times stronger than a man, to me that sounds very strong. If someone tells me a bear is 15, or 20 times stronger than a man, that would sound somewhat exaggerated. Dont get me wrong, am not saying its 5 times stronger, we really dont know, but it "sounds" pretty strong already.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 10:38:49 GMT -5
Quote: ... if someone tells me a bear is around 5 times stronger than a man, to me that sounds very strong. *And if this were confirmed, then I would estimate a lion or a tiger being roughly triple the strength of a man. But I'm just saying that we cannot confirm a specific number.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Jan 27, 2021 10:41:46 GMT -5
Yeah i agree. Which is still not bad by the way. Talking about the strongest of man.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 27, 2021 10:48:53 GMT -5
Yeah i agree. Which is still not bad by the way. Talking about the strongest of man. My assumption; a typical man in good health. Nothing mentioned about professional athletes.
|
|
|
Post by tom on Jan 27, 2021 17:05:56 GMT -5
Quote: ... if someone tells me a bear is around 5 times stronger than a man, to me that sounds very strong. *And if this were confirmed, then I would estimate a lion or a tiger being roughly triple the strength of a man. But I'm just saying that we cannot confirm a specific number. As far as the Bear strength, that would depend on the size of the Bear i would think. An adult male Kodiak Bear IMO could feasibly be stronger than 5 average men. I'm speculating of course. For Lions and or Tigers, yeah I don't think we could confirm a number either. It certainly would be fewer men than a Bear. Here's food for thought. Could 3 grown men wrestle down a full grown Zebra to the ground? I know that's a pretty crude comparison, but personally I don't see that happening. Possibly not even 5 grown men??? Seriously, if you could come up with some type of strength comparison test how would you do it? How much weight a man or men could drag vs a Lion?
|
|