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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:22:28 GMT -5
I disagree, If Clyde had been allowed to live out his life as a wild Bear he would not have reached 2400 lbs. Of course this is my opinion. Clyde weighed around 2200 lbs and 2400 lbs one year before his death. Do you have any quotes that he had a diabetes? Heart attack? Movement problems? We dont Tom. Like i said, bears have a special way to break fats and sugars.Of course we don't and why do bring up heart attack and diabetes in the first place? Your attributing Obesity diseases with humans which have nothing to do with bears.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:26:52 GMT -5
We just dont know that Tom. The oldest and largest bears are the most elusive and 2000 lb kodiak bears should exist more (according to brobear). Weight alone wont make a bear obese/unhealthy.
I would have the think the wildlife rangers at Kodiak NWR know most of the Bears that live there. Aerial surveillance plus eyewitness accounts would have come across a Bear of that size if there was one. Is it impossible, probably not, but we likely would have heard of one if there was.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:27:13 GMT -5
Ok, lets try to break it down a little. What Malikc wanted in this thread is to compare animal weights to human weights. So as to this point is concerned, as we have seen from that study above, scientists are studying captive grizzly bears to try to cure obesity. Why? Because unlike humans, as much as they eat (58.000 calories a day), they dont get fat, diabetes, or heart disease.
What i am trying to say is that "obese" is not the same in bears and humans. Yes, bears can suffer it, but barely and not because of weight. Humans suffer it much more.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:31:42 GMT -5
Clyde weighed around 2200 lbs and 2400 lbs one year before his death. Do you have any quotes that he had a diabetes? Heart attack? Movement problems? We dont Tom. Like i said, bears have a special way to break fats and sugars. Of course we don't and why do bring up heart attack and diabetes in the first place? Your attributing Obesity diseases with humans which have nothing to do with bears. What? You joking Tom? Bears can become diabetic during hibernation, then they recover. Heart attacks can happen also: the point is that it barely happens compared to humans:
www.newscientist.com/article/dn26008-grizzly-bears-become-diabetic-when-they-hibernate/
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:34:06 GMT -5
What i am trying to say is that "obese" is not the same in bears and humans. Yes, bears can suffer it, but barely and not because of weight. Humans suffer it much more.
Yes and I stated this in reply #20. They don't suffer from the human diseases attributed to obesity. I stand by what I said that if Clyde had been allowed to live out his life as a wild Bear he likely would not have weighed anywhere close to 2000+pounds even later in his life. I have nothing to base this on other that what we know today of the largest Kodiak Bears. In fact today I suspect a 1500 lb Bear on Kodiak is likely exception rather than the rule.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:34:46 GMT -5
Very interesting from the link above:
“Why do humans respond differently when they put on weight to these bears?” asks Gwyn Gould at the University of Glasgow, UK. “If we can identify that, we could produce therapies for diabetes.”
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:40:21 GMT -5
That is a whole different item though Tom, captive bears, and other animals, grow much larger in captivity than in the wild, (except polar bears), that does not make them obese, could be more like "overweight".
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:41:07 GMT -5
If they could figure that out and how to apply that to humans that would be a big breakthru. I personally am type 2 diabetic and take medication for it. I'm not obese (ok I'm 60 and I could stand to lose 15 pounds,so my doctor says .)
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:43:06 GMT -5
captive bears, and other animals, grow much larger in captivity than in the wild, (except polar bears), that does not make them obese, could be more like "overweight".
Obese, Overweight... were kind of splitting hairs here aren't we?
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:43:14 GMT -5
If they could figure that out and how to apply that to humans that would be a big breakthru. I personally am type 2 diabetic and take medication for it. I'm not obese (ok I'm 60 and I could stand to lose 15 pounds,so my doctor says .) Yeah, to be honest, i am diabetic also, (dont know which type), but i have like the least diabetic treatement.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:46:13 GMT -5
Well look, here its explained, there is a slight difference:
Being overweight or obese are both terms for having more body fat than what is considered healthy. Both are used to identify people who are at risk for health problems from having too much body fat. However, the term "obese" generally means a much higher amount of body fat than "overweight."
www.kidney.org/atoz/content/obesewyska
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:46:44 GMT -5
Your born with type 1 type 2 is adult onset diabetes. Type 1 diabetics need daily injections of insulin. Type 2 diabetes can be controlled with diet and excercise in some people, others need help with meds.
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Post by malikc6 on Aug 3, 2020 2:09:52 GMT -5
Is this the same thing with animals like big cats?
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 3, 2020 2:43:13 GMT -5
Is this the same thing with animals like big cats? Definitely not. Like we talked about, bears are adapted to have basically all the weight they want, their structure is built for weight. Brown bears increase their weight by 30-40% for hibernation, this is a sign of a healthy bear.
On the other hand, big cats are the complete opposite. They have evolved for speed and agility, not strength. The heavier the big cat, the slower and less agile it becomes. Their body structure is designed to have a limit of weight. So just in my own personal opinion, big cats that are 700+ lbs (most captive), are very obese and unhealthy. I would be surprised if these cats can even jump.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 3, 2020 2:51:17 GMT -5
Here is what a PHD candidate said:
"What's remarkable about bears' rapid weight gain is their bodies' positive responsive to fattening up. While humans often suffer serious health effects from rapid weight gain, bears are built to bulk up quickly.
"They don't really experience any negative consequences for being ridiculously fat like that," says Rivet. And while bears lose 20 to 40% of their body mass during hibernation, they tend to be healthy when emerging in the spring and don't lose any muscle mass. "
www.google.com/amp/s/www.backpacker.com/.amp/news-and-events/how-do-bears-get-so-fat
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Post by tom on Aug 4, 2020 16:24:52 GMT -5
I agree with everything you just stated. However, I want to make a point about using the term "obese" or "Obesity". It's alright to use this term to describe a pre hibernating Bear. It does not mean they get diseases attributed to Obesity as do humans. Obesity is a condition, not a disease. In humans one can lead to another, not so in Bears. Just want to clarify that.
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Post by brobear on Aug 4, 2020 17:35:22 GMT -5
Tom says: If Clyde had been allowed to live out his life as a wild Bear he would not have reached 2400 lbs. Of course this is my opinion. *I agree 100%. The Kodiak bear feeds on salmon for only a small portion of one year. Otherwise, he is consuming mostly vegetation. A brown bear ( with proper care ) will be bigger and heavier in captivity than in the wild. A polar bear feeds almost exclusively on blubber year-round. For this reason, a wild polar bear is normally larger in the wild than in captivity. There is posted somewhere in the brown bear section an article on some obese brown bears in captivity that were fed huge quantities of cakes and other sugary foods. Those bears died from obesity. Neither Clyde nor Goliath were obese ( in the medical sense )...( IMO ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 4, 2020 17:52:56 GMT -5
Those are of course, very rare cases. Those bears were feed sugars basically until death. As shown by the reports above, bears dont usually die or suffer health problems from obesity, not in the same way as humans at least.
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Post by brobear on Aug 4, 2020 19:04:09 GMT -5
Those are of course, very rare cases. Those bears were feed sugars basically until death. As shown by the reports above, bears dont usually die or suffer health problems from obesity, not in the same way as humans at least.
We will never find an obese bear living in the wild; and very few in captivity. But a bear fed on an unhealthy diet of candy, cake, pudding, etc. will not be a healthy bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 4, 2020 20:33:17 GMT -5
Those are of course, very rare cases. Those bears were feed sugars basically until death. As shown by the reports above, bears dont usually die or suffer health problems from obesity, not in the same way as humans at least.
We will never find an obese bear living in the wild; and very few in captivity. But a bear fed on an unhealthy diet of candy, cake, pudding, etc. will not be a healthy bear. Of course not, i agree. But still, a bear fed on unhealthy sugar foods will not get sick as much as a human will because bears have a special way of breaking down these sugars. Am comparing bears to humans as this topic suggests. Weight is good for bears, but in humans, weight is good up to a certain point.
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