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Post by malikc6 on Aug 1, 2020 20:44:38 GMT -5
Animals and humans are often hard to compare to one another due to different physiologies, but lets try this anyway.
A 300 lb man that doesn't workout or eats good is considered obese (lets keep this general as there are obvious exceptions). A 240 lb man could be considered overweight if unfit. Eating more calories than losing them can often lead to weight gain for the most part.
Now lets use bears. Average weights aside, if we were to use a barren ground grizzly bear and weigh him up to 1200lbs, what's the equivalent to a human? Is that bear overweight or obese or just fine?
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 1, 2020 20:52:43 GMT -5
Well, in the case of Barren ground grizzlies, they average around 440 lbs and can reach a max weight of around 700 lbs, so not the largest of brown bears. So if we had a 1200 lb Barren ground grizzly, that would definitely be an overweight specimen. Not obese no, because bears cant really get obese/unhealthy because they are adapted to have basically any weight they want.
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Post by malikc6 on Aug 1, 2020 21:15:02 GMT -5
Well, in the case of Barren ground grizzlies, they average around 440 lbs and can reach a max weight of around 700 lbs, so not the largest of brown bears. So if we had a 1200 lb Barren ground grizzly, that would definitely be an overweight specimen. Not obese no, because bears cant really get obese/unhealthy because they are adapted to have basically any weight they want. Would a 2000 lb Kodiak bear be considered overweight? And why can't a bear be considered obese? Body structure allows them to? Organ reasons? Cellular reasons? There's plenty of reasons why it's bad for humans.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 1, 2020 21:22:48 GMT -5
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Post by malikc6 on Aug 1, 2020 22:36:16 GMT -5
So the reason for this is due to skeletal structure reasons. Got it, and very interesting that we're actually studying them to help fight obesity.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 1, 2020 22:55:48 GMT -5
Yeah, skeletal structure to sustain all the weight they want. But as far as why they dont get obese and sick, their body has a special way of dealing with fats, this is from the link above:
Before they hibernate grizzlies eat around 100lbs worth of nuts, salmon and berries which increases their cholesterol and causes their blood pressure to jump.
Yet unlike humans, they do not suffer heart attacks or clogged arteries - and they don't become diabetics.
He said that the test results so far suggest that bears modify their sensitivity to the hormone insulin, which controls how sugars and fats are broken down and used for energy.
As they put on weight before hibernation, bears seem to be more sensitive to insulin, he said.
But when hibernation begins they seem to shut off their responsiveness to the hormone completely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 12:18:32 GMT -5
Yeah, skeletal structure to sustain all the weight they want. But as far as why they dont get obese and sick, their body has a special way of dealing with fats, this is from the link above:
Before they hibernate grizzlies eat around 100lbs worth of nuts, salmon and berries which increases their cholesterol and causes their blood pressure to jump.
Yet unlike humans, they do not suffer heart attacks or clogged arteries - and they don't become diabetics.
He said that the test results so far suggest that bears modify their sensitivity to the hormone insulin, which controls how sugars and fats are broken down and used for energy.
As they put on weight before hibernation, bears seem to be more sensitive to insulin, he said.
But when hibernation begins they seem to shut off their responsiveness to the hormone completely.
However, a bear should also have a limit to how much it can eat and tolerate. There's a definitely an obese bear if he doesn't work out or is not made to work out (captive conditions).
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 12:46:59 GMT -5
Yeah, that can happen in captivity, but it should still be somewhat rare on bears. Sure as hell alot more rare than other animals or humans.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 18:34:51 GMT -5
Interesting discussion guys. IMO it is perfectly natural and healthy for a Bear to become obese, but it's seasonal, in fact it's very healthy for a bear to become obese just prior to hibernation. It's also instinctive to want to put on all that weight. A Bear who doesn't pack on all the pounds prior to hibernation risks not making thru the winter or not hibernating at all. Spring and summer are for putting on pounds that were lost during hibernation, but not to the point of becoming grossly overweight. It is my opinion that they self regulate in spring/summer and eat enough to be satisfied. Captive Bears do not IMO require as many calories as their wild cousins as their activity is not as high. IMO Clyde was in a rather small enclosure and he was overweight due to inactivity. When was the last time you heard of a 2000 pound wild Kodiak Bear? yep never. The larger the enclosure and more natural surroundings the better.Here at the Minnesota Zoo we have a exhibit called the Russia's Grizzly Coast that has a very large enclosure that mimics what they have in the wild.Large enough for 3 Brown Bears with a swimming hole rocks to climb etc.. Much more room for the Bears to play and exercise. This is a 1000% better that what Clyde had at the Bismarck ND Zoo where he was kept. In fact I felt sorry for Clyde and what he was forced to live in. Russia's Grizzly Coast at the Minnesota Zoo.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 18:39:21 GMT -5
Clyde at the Dakota Zoo in Bismarck North Dakota. Deplorable conditions if you ask me.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 18:49:56 GMT -5
Clyde weighted around 2400 lbs one year before his death according to the zoo director. But he was not obese.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 18:52:40 GMT -5
Why do you say he was not obese? That's 900 lbs heavier than the largest Kodiak Bears in the wild. You could use Bart to as an example. Bart had room to run and play and was taken out of his enclosure at times. Bart was 1500 lbs. I'm sure that if Bart would have been caged all day, day after day he would have gained considerably more weight.
About Clyde:
That's a serious amount of fat for a bear who not in hibernating condition.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 18:57:02 GMT -5
Obese is considered unhealthy. Do you have the quotes that he was unhealthy because of his weight? Bears dont get unhealthy because of weight.
Here is the second largest Kodiak in captivity. Goliath-2000 lbs. Space farms zoo, New Jersey.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 18:58:34 GMT -5
Answer me this. Why do we not have Alaskan Coastal Bears or Kodiak Bears pushing 2000+ pounds?
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:00:28 GMT -5
That does not make him obese/unhealthy Tom. Bears have a special way of breaking down fats and sugars, its not like humans:
Before they hibernate grizzlies eat around 100lbs worth of nuts, salmon and berries which increases their cholesterol and causes their blood pressure to jump.
Yet unlike humans, they do not suffer heart attacks or clogged arteries - and they don't become diabetics.
He said that the test results so far suggest that bears modify their sensitivity to the hormone insulin, which controls how sugars and fats are broken down and used for energy.
As they put on weight before hibernation, bears seem to be more sensitive to insulin, he said.
But when hibernation begins they seem to shut off their responsiveness to the hormone completely.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2524726/amp/Could-bears-hold-cure-OBESITY-Grizzlies-eat-58-000-calories-day-dont-fat-develop-heart-disease.html
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:02:29 GMT -5
Obese is considered unhealthy.
Obese is considered unhealthy for humans. It's not unhealthy for Bears just prior to hibernation. Wild Bears are not in pre hibernation condition all throughout the spring and summer. Like I said Bears self regulate in spring and summer when they are not actively gorging themselves with food pre hibernation. I never stated that Clyde was unhealthy just obese as he was. I'll say it again when was the last time you heard of a 2000+ pound wild Kodiak Bear? Yep never....
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:03:59 GMT -5
Answer me this. Why do we not have Alaskan Coastal Bears or Kodiak Bears pushing 2000+ pounds? That does not mean that if we have a freak specimen its obese. For it to be obese it needs to have physical problems, which they dont, not because of weight.
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Post by tom on Aug 2, 2020 19:06:33 GMT -5
I disagree, If Clyde had been allowed to live out his life as a wild Bear he would not have reached 2400 lbs. Of course this is my opinion.
Again, A Bear in pre hibernation that gains 30%+ additional bodyweight is much heavier than he would be spring/summer but is not physically inept.
Obese.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:10:15 GMT -5
We just dont know that Tom. The oldest and largest bears are the most elusive and 2000 lb kodiak bears should exist more (according to brobear). Weight alone wont make a bear obese/unhealthy.
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Post by King Kodiak on Aug 2, 2020 19:13:38 GMT -5
I disagree, If Clyde had been allowed to live out his life as a wild Bear he would not have reached 2400 lbs. Of course this is my opinion. Clyde weighed around 2200 lbs and 2400 lbs one year before his death. Do you have any quotes that he had a diabetes? Heart attack? Movement problems? We dont Tom. Like i said, bears have a special way to break fats and sugars.
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