|
Post by brobear on May 7, 2020 10:23:01 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriotherium Agriotherium is an extinct genus of bears whose fossils are found in Miocene through Pleistocene-aged strata of North America, Europe, Africa, and Asia. This long-lived genus persisted from at least ~11.6–2.5 Mya. Materials from the late-surviving A. africanum in Africa have suggested that A. africanum died out during the early Gelasian. www.felineworlds.com/lion-evolution-and-subspecies/ The oldest fossil remains of the Lion that we have are approximately 3.5 million years old. The do give us some information though about how the various species of felines have changed and diversified throughout time. *This would suggest that for roughly 1 million years, Africa was home to both the lion and Agriotherium.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 7, 2020 11:07:12 GMT -5
Yeah, more specifically Agriotherium Africanum, the bear with the strongest bite force in history. (Watch out lion, dont get bitten by this bear, ouchhhhhh).
|
|
|
Post by brobear on May 7, 2020 11:21:26 GMT -5
Yeah, more specifically Agriotherium Africanum, the bear with the strongest bite force in history. (Watch out lion, dont get bitten by this bear, ouchhhhhh). We need some form of time machine. I would love to witness that interaction. Of course, there were likely some differences in those original lions and those living today. Wouldn't it be something if lions learned to live in groups as "bear protection".
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on May 7, 2020 11:34:32 GMT -5
I dont think so, but who really knows? Anything is possible.
|
|
|
Post by theundertaker45 on May 8, 2020 3:23:03 GMT -5
The Agriotherium most likely coexisted with the Natodomeri lion who was approximately the same size as the American lion. I can imagine this being a prehistoric form of Atlas bear vs Barbary lion. If they invent a time machine one day, I will certainly explore the whole Pleistocene. 😎
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 10, 2020 4:26:55 GMT -5
It would be good if we had a time machine to see how the interaction took place. The Agriotherium existed together with a lot of other predators too.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 4:04:41 GMT -5
prehistoric-fauna.com/Natodomeri-lion Natodomeri lion (Panthera leo Order: Carnivora Family: Felidae Range and period of existence: Pleistocene of East Africa (195 000 - 205 000 years ago) Dimensions: skull length - 460 mm, body length - 3 m, height - 125 cm, weight - 180 -350+ kg. The partial skull of a lion from Natodomeri, northwest Kenya is described. The Natodomeri sites are correlated with Member I of the Kibish Formation, dated to between 195 ka and ca. 205 ka. The skull is remarkable for its very great size, equivalent to the largest cave lions (Panthera spelaea [Goldfuss, 1810]) of Pleistocene Eurasia and much larger than any previously known lion from Africa, living or fossil. We hypothesize that this individual represents a previously unknown population or subspecies of lion present in the late Middle and Late Pleistocene of eastern Africa rather than being an indication of climate-driven size increase in lions of that time. This raises questions regarding the extent of our understanding of the pattern and causes of lion evolution in the Late Pleistocene.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 4:08:04 GMT -5
It appears that the Natodomeri lion came in too late to have ever have seen Agriotherium.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 13, 2020 4:22:05 GMT -5
It appears that the Natodomeri lion came in too late to have ever have seen Agriotherium. The Agritherium is too big one on one. A pride of Natodomeri lions can pull this off depending on how well they corporate. Are they as social leader as the African lion?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 5:00:33 GMT -5
www.earthtouchnews.com/discoveries/fossils/dna-reveals-the-true-identity-of-the-prehistoric-cave-lion/ DNA reveals the true identity of the prehistoric cave lion - BY DAVID MOSCATO AUGUST 25 2016. And there was another surprise. By comparing DNA, researchers can estimate how much time has passed since two species split from their common ancestor. The oldest fossil evidence of lions is just under 1.5 million years old, but Barnett's study indicated that Panthera spelaea and Panthera leo had an ancestor almost two million years ago! This means there's half a million years' worth of lion evolution we haven't yet found in the fossil record. What was this two million-year-old ancestral lion like?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 5:03:06 GMT -5
*According to this data; the first lion appeared roughly 2 million years ago. The last agriotherium died roughly 2.5 million years ago.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 13, 2020 5:49:51 GMT -5
Yeah, more specifically Agriotherium Africanum, the bear with the strongest bite force in history. (Watch out lion, dont get bitten by this bear, ouchhhhhh). Even a larger male kodiak and polar bear will have a stronger bite than a lion and tiger overall (not pound to pound). Therefore, it is not surprise that the African short faced bear has much stronger jaws.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 13, 2020 6:19:08 GMT -5
Yeah, more specifically Agriotherium Africanum, the bear with the strongest bite force in history. (Watch out lion, dont get bitten by this bear, ouchhhhhh). Even a larger male kodiak and polar bear will have a stronger bite than a lion and tiger overall (not pound to pound). Therefore, it is not surprise that the African short faced bear has much stronger jaws. Even though Agriotherium Africanum had some similarities with the Short faced bears, like the skull, it was from a different subfamily, Agriotheriinae.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 16:16:25 GMT -5
Not a lion, but a contemporary of Agriotherium africanum: prehistoric-fauna.com/Machairodus-kabir Amphimachairodus kabir, Machairodus kabir (Machairodus kabir Peigné et. al., 2004) †Amphimachairodus Kretzoi, 1929 Order: Carnivora Family: Felidae Subfamily: †Machairodontinae Tribe: †Homotherini Time period: late Miocene in Africa Size: 2,4 m in length, 125 cm in height, 150-350 kg of weight. Amphimachairodus was a genus of large machairodontine saber-tooth cats that lived in Europe, Asia, Africa and North America during the Miocene through Pleistocene living from 11.6 million yeas ago—126,000 years ago, existing for approximately 11.5 million years. Paleontologists have discovered the remains of a large saber-toothed cat in the Taurus-Menella in Africa, known as Amphimachairodus kabir. The weight of this animal is estimated at 350 kg. The height at the withers was probably about 125 cm, which is comparable with the largest Cave Lion (Panthera (Leo) Spelaea) and the American Lion (Panthera (Leo) Atrox).
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Dec 13, 2020 17:36:33 GMT -5
Yeah, the Amphimachairodus kabir, another Saber-toothed cat that got displaced by Africanum:
Very large size would have been necessary to steal and defend kills in environments dominated by some of the most powerful carnivorous mammals that have ever lived, such as the sabertooth cat Amphimachairodus, with whom it shared territory in both Afro-Eurasia and North America, and the bone-cracking canid Epicyon and the massive feliform sabertooth Barbourofelis, which it lived alongside in Texas, as evidenced by fossil deposits at Coffee Ranch.[7][8]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriotherium
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 17:53:09 GMT -5
Reply #14 - great research King Kodiak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 18:14:03 GMT -5
Yeah, more specifically Agriotherium Africanum, the bear with the strongest bite force in history. (Watch out lion, dont get bitten by this bear, ouchhhhhh). We need some form of time machine. I would love to witness that interaction. Of course, there were likely some differences in those original lions and those living today. Wouldn't it be something if lions learned to live in groups as "bear protection". Actually scientists of theorized that the lion lived in groups to protect themselves from homotheriums and meganterons.Lions hunted in the night because homotheriums were diurnal. References Age of the big cats
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 13, 2020 18:18:12 GMT -5
We need some form of time machine. I would love to witness that interaction. Of course, there were likely some differences in those original lions and those living today. Wouldn't it be something if lions learned to live in groups as "bear protection". Actually scientists of theorized that the lion lived in groups to protect themselves from homotheriums and meganterons.Lions hunted in the night because homotheriums were diurnal. References Age of the big cats I agree. I watched a video ( which is here in our video section ) showing that the saber-toothed cats were diurnal and thus the Pantherines became nocturnal hunters. In this way reducing competition.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 16, 2020 8:24:03 GMT -5
Anyway, the African Agotherium does interact with lions. If only we could find some reports about the natural interaction.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Dec 18, 2020 1:27:46 GMT -5
Anyway, the African Agotherium does interact with lions. If only we could find some reports about the natural interaction. www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/origin-modern-lions-discovered/ In an attempt to understand the origin and population history of lions, scientists sequenced DNA from both living lions and museum-preserved lions, some of which are now extinct, from different geographical areas. They found that recent lion lineages began to diverge in the Late Pleistocene, and that the modern lion populations last shared a most recent common ancestor around 124,000 years ago. The results have been published in the journal BMC Evolutionary Biology. *I seriously have my doubts that Agriotherium ever saw a lion.
|
|