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Post by brobear on May 11, 2023 5:19:51 GMT -5
Bone measurements in scientific litterature show us that their leg bones were longer and wider than any brown bear bones... Large males weighted more than 1000kg. Do you imagine such a large carnivor with thin legs? It's ridiculous. Another interesting fact: their skulls were more robust than any living bears... How thick were their limb bones in comparison to the length? I'm not calling you on this matter; but I'm interested. When Paleontologists change their assessments, I like to see for myself. Please post the study or their own words. If Arctodus simus was an active predator, then this changes my whole perspective. My thoughts are, with so many large predators in Pleistocene North America, why would the giant short-faced bear have to burn energy hunting? I understand that he would doubtlessly take down the occasional peccary or bison calf, but as for actively hunting big game, I'm still not convinced.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2023 13:32:00 GMT -5
Bone measurements in scientific litterature show us that their leg bones were longer and wider than any brown bear bones... Large males weighted more than 1000kg. Do you imagine such a large carnivor with thin legs? It's ridiculous. Another interesting fact: their skulls were more robust than any living bears... How thick were their limb bones in comparison to the length? I'm not calling you on this matter; but I'm interested. When Paleontologists change their assessments, I like to see for myself. Please post the study or their own words. If Arctodus simus was an active predator, then this changes my whole perspective. My thoughts are, with so many large predators in Pleistocene North America, why would the giant short-faced bear have to burn energy hunting? I understand that he would doubtlessly take down the occasional peccary or bison calf, but as for actively hunting big game, I'm still not convinced. Hi brobear, To be honest, it would take some times to compare all data. I have a lot of scientific papers about prehistoric animals (and of course bears) and i can confirm what i have said: Arctodus had longer and wider bones than all extant bears. Like i said, it is a mistake to tell "Arctodus was a scavenger" or "Arctodus was an active predator". It is more simple: Arctodus, like all carnivores could scavenge carcass or could hunt preys, all carnivors do that. But considering that large Arctodus were really impressive, they mostly behaved like giant kleptoparasites and could contest carcass owned by other carnivores. You wrote: How thick were their limb bones in comparison to the length?
Be careful, this data is about the robustness of the bones, not their absolute size. Arctodus had longer and wider bones than extant bears, so, by definition their legs were bigger in terms of absolute size. But i would like to remember you something most people don't realize: longest humerus of Arctodus Simus ( 646mm) were longer than thoses of modern hippos and rhinos. Do you realize that large male short faced bears (in North and South America) had a shoulder height equals and sometimes greater than an actual hippo and even sometimes rhino...? I think at the end of the paper concerning the giant Huracan Bear there are some comments about Arctodus. There are other giant prehistoric bears that can potentially rivalize with the short faced bears, particulary Ursus Arctos Priscus but unfortunately, i have not enough data. I read that their mass was between 700 kg and 1500kg for the largest specimens but without some more bone measurements, i can't really have a precise idea.
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Post by brobear on May 11, 2023 23:22:02 GMT -5
Ursus Arctos Priscus, Ursus Ingressus, and now Huracan coffeyi. What adult prey animals would you guess to be the giant short faced bear's limitation? Imo; Adult mammoths and mastodons were safe. The largest forms of giant ground sloths were safe. Probably the giant camel and the largest species of bison were safe from bears.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2023 2:55:43 GMT -5
Ursus Arctos Priscus, Ursus Ingressus, and now Huracan coffeyi. What adult prey animals would you guess to be the giant short faced bear's limitation? Imo; Adult mammoths and mastodons were safe. The largest forms of giant ground sloths were safe. Probably the giant camel and the largest species of bison were safe from bears. I agree for adult mammoths and mastodons. I disagree for giant camels and bisons. Like i said, it is a matter of technique. Bears are very smarts. If a large male short faced bear is able to avoid the giant horns of the bison by staying behind him, it could at the end have a chance to pull down the bison by biting him with its massive jaws. The jaws of the short faced bears were more robust than those of any big cats, extant or extinct. Even a large bison would be in trouble if a 1000kg hungry bear clung to its back, biting and mauling him. I don't tell it was common of course. I just tell it is just possible on exceptional circumstances. The largest ground sloths were extremely massive animals so it is a real challenge. But some giant Arctotherium Angustidens could have had a chance on rare occasions. It is quite common for carnivores to kill animals much bigger than themselves if they have learned the right hunting technique. Just a last thing: never underestimate an hungry bear, they are extremely tenacious. But of course, a large prehistoric elephant or a large prehistoric rhino in good health is safe from any predators as long as he is healthy.
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