|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 30, 2019 2:39:15 GMT -5
/\ Just a question for you guys, what is the largest species of bear a Ngadong tiger can possibly defeat?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 3:34:12 GMT -5
/\ Just a question for you guys, what is the largest species of bear a Ngadong tiger can possibly defeat? Probably any species other than a grizzly, polar bear, or cave bear among Ursus bears. We are talking about a fight to the death in a face-off. In most cases, realistically, a large black bear could probably defend himself just as a female sloth bear in the 200 pound range can defend herself against a male tiger in the 400 pound range.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 30, 2019 7:23:11 GMT -5
/\ Brobear. Personally, I believe that a huge male grizzly, Kodiak bear, and polar bear would beat a Ngadong tiger. The Ngadong tiger is capable of killing the smaller bears and even a similar size brown bear in a fight to death. However, most of the time American black bears as you say will be able to fight off (not kill) the Ngadong tiger just as a sloth bear fights off a Bengal tiger due to the striped cat not wanting to risk injury due to it hindering its hunting ability. I just want to add that the barren ground grizzly might be immune to Ngadong tiger predation as even the larger and stronger polar bear leaves a barren ground grizzly alone even though the yellowish white bear is capable of killing its much smaller brown cousin in a fight to death. The Tibetan blue bear which is almost as aggressive as the barren ground grizzly bear will probably be also immune. What do you think Brobear?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 7:28:33 GMT -5
I agree with all you said. The grizzly evolved among giant tigers in China. They have known each other from the beginning, which is why ( imo ) tigers fear a face-off with a bear and leave the mature males alone.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 30, 2019 7:30:40 GMT -5
/\ Are there any giant tigers bigger than the Ngadong tiger?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 7:41:01 GMT -5
Wanhsien tiger Result of your conversion: 350 kilograms is equal to 771.62 pounds (avoirdupois) ... 772 pounds. Ngandong Tiger might be slightly heavier. See "Pleistocene big cats".
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 30, 2019 7:47:06 GMT -5
Thanks. I just wanted to add some new animals in my battle royale analysis later on. Anyway back to topic, the brown bears from China did cross paths with tigers - interesting. The Ussuri brown bear and Siberian tiger seems to be the remnant of the brown bear and tiger interaction. Brobear if you don't mind me asking one more question, what is the name of the grizzly bear or brown bear subspecies from China and how much does it weigh?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 7:53:10 GMT -5
I have discovered no information on the original grizzly ( ? ) but the tiger he had to contend with ( first ) was likely the Wanhsien tiger.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Oct 30, 2019 7:56:24 GMT -5
/\ No worries. Anyway, the original brown bear as a whole might be the steppe brown bear which was found I Eastern Europe and parts of China and Russia. Correct me if I am wrong.
|
|
|
Post by King Kodiak on Oct 30, 2019 9:17:45 GMT -5
Thanks. I just wanted to add some new animals in my battle royale analysis later on. Anyway back to topic, the brown bears from China did cross paths with tigers - interesting. The Ussuri brown bear and Siberian tiger seems to be the remnant of the brown bear and tiger interaction. Brobear if you don't mind me asking one more question, what is the name of the grizzly bear or brown bear subspecies from China and how much does it weigh? The brown bear in China is the Himalayan brown bear (Ursus arctos Isabellinus), the red bear. We also have the brown bear from Japan, the Hokkaido brown bear (Ursus arctos Yesoensis), but it looks like now they changed it to (Ursus arctos lasiotus), same as the Ussuri brown bear.
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/297/hokkaido-brown-bear
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Oct 30, 2019 10:25:39 GMT -5
But of the original brown bear, from which all brown bears emerged, I have discovered no information; not even a name. Tigerluver did say, however, that the first brown bear was a large bear. China is the birthplace of the grizzly roughly 1,000,000 years ago. Meanwhile, also from the etruscan bear, the grizzly's closest relative, the cave bear, evolved in Europe.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Jan 4, 2020 5:05:19 GMT -5
The first grizzlies - Pleistocene Chinese grizzly ( which we have no information on ) - had to deal with the Wanhsien tiger a million years ago.
|
|
|
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 4, 2020 5:20:32 GMT -5
The first grizzlies - Pleistocene Chinese grizzly ( which we have no information on ) - had to deal with the Wanhsien tiger a million years ago. Any link for the Pleistocene Chinese grizzly?
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2020 5:31:05 GMT -5
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/265/european-brown-bear?page=5&scrollTo=27221 The oldest fossils are from the Choukoutien, China, and date back about 500,000 years. It is known from mtDNA studies that during the Pleistocene ice age it was too cold for the brown bear to survive in Europe except in three places: Russia, Spain, and the Balkans. bear.org/bear-evolution/ Bears are the youngest of the carnivore families, having arisen from doglike ancestors during the Eocene Epoch 55 million to 38 million years ago. The earliest bears had the characteristics of both dogs and bears, with heavy-set features and blunter teeth than those of true dogs. domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/82/basic-bear-evolution?page=2&scrollTo=27224 It is generally agreed upon that the evolutionary origin of the brown bear is in Eurasia. However, there is not enough evidence to determine whether if it originated in Europe or Asia (Masuda, Aiurzaniin, Yoshida 1998).
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2020 6:37:29 GMT -5
pgl.soe.ucsc.edu/Harington14.pdf Conclusions 1. A third metatarsal from a sandpit located at Saint-Nicolas, within the city of Lévis, Quebec, identified by morphological and ancient DNA analysis proved to be that of a brown bear (Ursus arctos). It is the first bear fossil identified from Champlain Sea deposits, in addition to being the first Champlain Sea vertebrate fossil from which DNA has been successfully extracted for identification purposes. Morphological and pathological evidence suggest the specimen was from an old bear, and iron staining indicates the specimen came from a layer of oxidized sand. 2. Collagen from the bone was AMS dated to 9880 ± 35 BP, indicating that brown bears reached the margins of the Champlain Sea during its final phase, perhaps to scavenge washed-up carcasses of marine mammals. This date is close to that of a walrus (Odobenus rosmarus) ilium (dated to 9780 ± 60 BP) from sands at Saint-Nicolas, indicating that brown bears and walruses were contemporary there. 3. Tidal-current sands of the Pleistocene–Holocene transition at Saint-Nicolas, now across the Saint Lawrence River from the city of Québec, preserve an exceptional marine fossil fauna including 38 kinds of invertebrates, five fish species, five seabird species, and five mammal species (four of them marine). This faunal diversity is associated with high marine ity arising from mixing of salt and fresh water. Radiocarbon ages for the fauna range from about 10 060 to 9810 BP. Sediments at the site were deposited in an archipelago at the entrance to the Champlain Sea that was subjected to tides of about 10 m. 4. Brown bears probably arose from Etruscan bears (Ursus etruscus) characteristic of Early Pleistocene Europe. The earliest known brown bears are from Middle Pleistocene deposits of Choukoutien, China, and the species has a continuous record in East Asia from then to the present time. The species entered Europe later in the Middle Pleistocene, and had entered North America via the Bering Isthmus by Wisconsinan time — about 50 000 BP. Some migrated south to the heartland of North America via the Ice-free Corridor east of the Cordillera, reaching the southwestern part of its historic range in western United States and Eastern Canada (probably Woodbridge, near Toronto) shortly after. Perhaps only two brown bear specimens approaching the age of that from SaintNicolas are known from Eastern Canada: a skull from a gravel pit near Orillia, Ontario, dated to about 11 700 BP, and most of a cranium from Trou Otis, a cave near La Rédemption, Quebec, thought to be Early Holocene in age. Brown bears probably died out in Eastern Canada (Quebec and Labrador) in historic time.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 2, 2020 2:04:39 GMT -5
www.quora.com/What-was-the-ancestor-of-the-modern-brown-bear Brown bears (Ursus arctos) are believed to have descended from the obscure Ursid Ursus savini, becoming distinct around 800,000 years ago in Asia, most likely China, where the oldest remains of around 500,000 years have been unearthed. U. savini lineages in Europe are believed to have given rise to the Deninger cave bear (Ursus deningeri), ancestral to the later European cave bear (Ursus spelaeaus), Gamssulzen cave bear (Ursus ingressus) and small cave bear (Ursus rossicus). U. savini is believed to have been descended from the better-known Etruscan bear (Ursus etruscus) which in turn is be...
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 2, 2020 2:08:41 GMT -5
www.flickr.com/photos/46944516@N00/48701472192 Brown bears are thought to have evolved from Ursus Etruscans in Asia. The brown bear, per Kurten (1976), has been stated as "clearly derived from the Asian population of Ursus savini about 800,000 years ago; spread into Europe, to the New World." Genetic analysis indicated that the brown bear lineage diverged from the cave bear species complex approximately 1.2–1.4 million years ago, but did not clarify if U. Savini persisted as a para species for the brown bear before perishing. The oldest fossils positively identified as from this species occur in China from about 0.5 million years ago. Brown bears entered Europe about 250,000 years ago and North Africa shortly after. Brown bear remains from the Pleistocene period are common in the British Isles, where it is thought they might have outcompeted cave bears (Ursus spelaeus). The species entered Alaska 100,000 years ago, though they did not move south until 13,000 years ago. It is speculated that brown bears were unable to migrate south until the extinction of the much larger giant short-faced bear (Arctodus simus). *Replay: The brown bear, per Kurten (1976), has been stated as "clearly derived from the Asian population of Ursus savini about 800,000 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 2, 2020 2:36:14 GMT -5
www.quora.com/q/theeducationalblog/Clarifying-the-various-cave-bear-species Ursus savini, the steppe cave bear. This species is considered as a sister species to U. deningeri. The steppe cave bear was first described in 1922 from middle Pleistocene deposits in Bacton, England, but fossil evidence has also led to the inclusion of some more recent cave bear taxa (previously thought to be closer allied to U. deningeri) as late subspecies of U. savini. The far-flung locations of these subspecies suggest that the steppe cave bear had an Asian-Siberian origin, and their environmental context, as well that of the type locality, has led to its christened common name. Based on craniodental morphology, the authors of a new 2017 study have argued that it was well adapted to grazing (most other cave bears appear to have preferred boreal forest areas), and environmental data puts the bears in mosaic landscape settings of mixed woodland and steppe - hilly, but not mountainous. Two subspecies of this bear are currently recognized: 1- Ursus savini nordostensis, the Beringian cave bear. The most northwestern cave bear know, found in Cherskiy, in the northeastern part of arctic Siberia, along the Kolyma river. The dating for its locality are very imprecise, ranging from between 0.5 and 1.5 million years. The environmental settings in which it was found indicates steppe-tundra, with very few caves. While it inhabited what is technically known as Beringia, there is no evidence that it spread to North America. Based on its remains, it appears to be a relatively small bear, at about the size of a modern black bear. 2- Ursus savini rossicus, the Krasnodar cave bear. Named after the type locality of Krasnodar, just north of the Russian Caucasus, the Krasnodar cave bear was found across the south of Siberia, as well as parts of Eastern Europe, including the Ukraine and as far west as Bulgaria, and was a relatively small (but robust) bear, about the size of a modern black bear. In the past, it has been debated whether the Krasnodar cave bear should be considered its own species, or merely a subspecies of steppe cave bear on the basis of morphmetrics. For a while, aDNA evidence from remains from Kizel cave in the Urals placed the Krasnodar cave bear as a sister group to the Medvezhiya cave bear (see below..), but these Uralian bears are now argued to be dwarf forms of the latter lineage. The Krasnodar cave bear is known to have existed throughout the middle and late Pleistocene, with the most recent remains dating to about 28.9 thousand years ago.
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 2, 2020 2:41:31 GMT -5
*The Beringian cave bear ( Ursus savini nordostensis ) appears ( to me ) to be the most likely suspect - leading us towards our ancestral brown bear. This is a maybe. *The Auvergne bear ( Ursus minimus ) >>> the Etruscan bear ( Ursus etruscus ) >>> the Beringian cave bear ( Ursus savini nordostensis ) >>> brown bear ( Ursus arctos ).
|
|
|
Post by brobear on Apr 2, 2020 3:22:41 GMT -5
domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/40/cave-bear-evolution?page=1 Ursus savini, the steppe cave bear. This species is considered as a sister species to U. deningeri. The steppe cave bear was first described in 1922 from middle Pleistocene deposits in Bacton, England, but fossil evidence has also led to the inclusion of some more recent cave bear taxa (previously thought to be closer allied to U. deningeri) as late subspecies of U. savini. The far-flung locations of these subspecies suggest that the steppe cave bear had an Asian-Siberian origin, and their environmental context, as well that of the type locality, has led to its christened common name. Based on craniodental morphology, the authors of a new 2017 study have argued that it was well adapted to grazing (most other cave bears appear to have preferred boreal forest areas), and environmental data puts the bears in mosaic landscape settings of mixed woodland and steppe - hilly, but not mountainous.Two subspecies of this bear are currently recognized: Ursus savini nordostensis, the Beringian cave bear. The most northwestern cave bear know, found in Cherskiy, in the northeastern part of arctic Siberia, along the Kolyma river. The dating for its locality are very imprecise, ranging from between 0.5 and 1.5 million years. The environmental settings in which it was found indicates steppe-tundra, with very few caves. While it inhabited what is technically known as Beringia, there is no evidence that it spread to North America. Based on its remains, it appears to be a relatively small bear, at about the size of a modern black bear. *Replay: The environmental settings in which it was found indicates steppe-tundra, with very few caves.
|
|