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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Feb 15, 2021 7:47:24 GMT -5
It’s teeth are longer than that of a tiger and lion but shorter than these of smilodons.
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Post by kesagake on Feb 17, 2021 14:33:53 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus might be bulkier than other big cats but if it is lion size, even an extant male grizzly bear would beat it. Face to face at least.
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Post by brobear on Feb 17, 2021 14:51:19 GMT -5
The Xenosmilus might be bulkier than other big cats but if it is lion size, even an extant male grizzly bear would beat it. Face to face at least. I agree. In an ambush attack, this cat could kill a big brown bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 9, 2021 7:46:23 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 9, 2021 7:53:57 GMT -5
Info credited to Taipan: "Rather than trying to trip or tackle prey and then deliver deadly slashing bites, Martin and colleagues hypothesize that Xenosmilus had a different killing method. “As the jaws closed,” Martin and co-authors wrote in their new description, “a large bolus of meat was extracted.” This cat was not a quick and elegant killer. If these paleontologists are correct, then Xenosmilus tore away large chunks of flesh from the flanks or abdomens of fleeing prey until the animal died of shock and blood loss. The mouth of this cat may have acted as one of the deadliest cookie-cutters of all time." carnivora.net/xenosmilus-hodsonae-v-grizzly-bear-t3370-s15.html#p14053
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 9, 2021 15:29:21 GMT -5
Reply #25, Wow nice, Xenosmilus was a very dangerous cat, and it went for the kill on the flanks of the animals, not the neck area. This means the grizzly's thick neck wont really matter in this fight. I still have this fight at 50%. But yeah, what a savage cat.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 9, 2021 16:01:26 GMT -5
Reply #25, Wow nice, Xenosmilus was a very dangerous cat, and it went for the kill on the flanks of the animals, not the neck area. This means the grizzly's thick neck wont really matter in this fight. I still have this fight at 50%. But yeah, what a savage cat. The grizzly’s thick fur and fat would give it some protection. Besides the grizzly would probably be fighting back instead of running. Remember: then Xenosmilus tore away large chunks of flesh from the flanks or abdomens of fleeing prey until the animal died of shock and blood loss.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 9, 2021 16:12:00 GMT -5
Reply #25, Wow nice, Xenosmilus was a very dangerous cat, and it went for the kill on the flanks of the animals, not the neck area. This means the grizzly's thick neck wont really matter in this fight. I still have this fight at 50%. But yeah, what a savage cat. The grizzly’s thick fur and fat would give it some protection. Besides the grizzly would probably be fighting back instead of running. Remember: then Xenosmilus tore away large chunks of flesh from the flanks or abdomens of fleeing prey until the animal died of shock and blood loss. Yeah, what i meant is that even in a face to face fight, most cats go for the neck area. But this cat does not seem to do that.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 9, 2021 16:21:55 GMT -5
The grizzly’s thick fur and fat would give it some protection. Besides the grizzly would probably be fighting back instead of running. Remember: then Xenosmilus tore away large chunks of flesh from the flanks or abdomens of fleeing prey until the animal died of shock and blood loss. Yeah, what i meant is that even in a face to face fight, most cats go for the neck area. But this cat does not seem to do that.I agree with you. The Xenosmilus fighting style will be quite different from that of pantherines and probably other Sabre toothed cats. However, it will still be easier to bite off flesh from flanks and abdomens from fleeing prey instead of a competitor which is fighting back. A hypothetical match up between an interior grizzly and Xenosmilus will be interesting. The Peninsula Alaskan grizzly bear is just too big.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 11, 2021 6:27:53 GMT -5
The match is really tough. The cat is a ambushh predator and the bear is a fighter. Both are very robust but the bear as a rule is a little more stronger. The jaws of cat are better whhile the paws and claws of bear are better. The bear has more stamina and defence advantage while the cat has more agility and speed advatage. I would say that the bear would win 52%.
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Post by brobear on Jun 11, 2021 6:41:19 GMT -5
Xenosmilus' average weight as being anywhere between ~220-240kg - thus 230kg = 507 pounds. Average fully grown male Yellowstone grizzly (9 years+) - 470 pounds. *Thus it is possible ( maybe ) Xeno had a small weight advantage of from 30 to 40 pounds. Not enough to remove the bear's strength advantage. My estimation is: Grizzly 6 out of 10.
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Post by Montezuma on Jun 12, 2021 15:06:19 GMT -5
The cat is an ambush killer and the bear is a face to face killer. Thats a main difference. The bear may not have the size and weight advantage but still the bear's superior stamina, durability, fighting skills, strength and powerful paws and claws are better than the cat's agility and canines.
Bear advantages:- Stamina, more strength, powerful paws, better claws, durablity, fighting nature and ability to stand on hind legs.
Cat advantages:- More agile, quick and better jaws.
Thats all the advantages that i can see in the face-off between these two.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jun 13, 2021 6:55:10 GMT -5
I'd like to mention that Xenosmilus was nothing like the modern cats we see today; regarding combativeness it was superior in almost every regard being able to implement a plantigrade posture when taking down its prey. I've read through a post by tigerluver on Wild Fact and the average weight range for this ancient cat is ~200-290kg (median of 245kg or 540lbs) despite a shoulder height of 95cm; that's shorter than a lion/tiger, yet a good deal heavier. Assuming an adaption towards environments characterized by forests/jungles the average weight range could be slightly increased, it is very likely that this cat was specialized for dense jungles similar to most jaguars/tigers.
I would support a brown bear over a similar sized Panthera by a slight edge but I am not that certain with the ancient brutes; they were substantially stronger and "brawnier" if you will. A huge coastal grizzly is out of reach for any cat that has ever existed ofc but with an interior grizzly it might be a very difficult matchup.
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Post by brobear on Jun 13, 2021 7:31:35 GMT -5
OK; so this would place Xenosmilus at roughly weight-parity with the grizzly. Considering the strength of this big cat ( similar to Smilodon ) which might rival that of the bear; certainly no huge difference, and considering weaponry, perhaps the best we can estimate would be a 50/50 draw at best. *I would still wager on the bear, but not too heavily.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 13, 2021 8:28:18 GMT -5
Judging by this new info given by Theundertaker, seems like Xenosmilus keeps getting larger. Now with an average weight of 540 lbs, it has a 70 lb weight advantage over a grizzly bear, that is 15% larger. Not to mention it was plantigrade. It also had very robust humerus as shown in page #1, (the grizzly still had a slightly more robust humerus)
Humeral robustness index: Xeno- 0.0985 - Grizzly- 0.1081
Based on all this data, i will have to change from 50%, to 6/10 for Xenosmilus.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 13, 2021 21:20:12 GMT -5
The Peninsula Alaskan brown bear and interior grizzly at upper weights still wins more often than not. Other than that, it is a good discovery.
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