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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 20, 2020 11:39:47 GMT -5
AGRIOTHERIUM AFRICANUM (A), PANTHERA LEO (B).
There is no comparison of the sizes of the skulls obviously. But the author really made this to compare the orbital cavity and the eyeballs. And Panthera Leo has the eyeballs much larger than Africanum as we can see.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 23, 2020 10:24:34 GMT -5
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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 23, 2020 13:47:04 GMT -5
Skull Data on Arctotherium (comprises the data of Soibelzon and Tarantini, 2009)
Arctotherium Angustidens
Condylobasal Length of the Skull: 402.8mm (n=11; range: 364-430mm)
Arctotherium Bonariense
Condylobasal Length of the Skull: 346mm (n=2; range: 322-370mm)
Arctotherium Tarijense
Condylobasal Length of the Skull: 324.5mm (n=2; range: 323-326mm)
Arctotherium Vestutum
Condylobasal Length of the Skull: 295mm (n=1)
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SKULLs
Dec 27, 2020 2:42:35 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 27, 2020 2:42:35 GMT -5
www.boone-crockett.org/bc-worlds-record-grizzly-bear A hunter found the World's Record grizzly skull near McGrath, Alaska in 1976. He stored it in his attic for 30 years before having it officially scored. Turns out it's the largest grizzly skull ever recorded. In April 1974 a friend and I flew in a Piper Super Cub to the McGrath, Alaska area for a three-week-long grizzly bear hunt. We covered a large area, encountered scores of bears, and settled on a couple of locations where large boars were present. We concentrated our efforts at these places and took two large grizzlies. One of these bears is listed in the current Boone & Crockett records, taken by Curtis C. Classen, McGrath, Alaska, 1974. The skull scored 25-2/16. I also shot a large grizzly, but never entered the skull in the records. While this area produces large grizzlies, it also offers black bears. So, in spring 1976 I returned, this time to hunt black bear. While on an extended hike over the tundra and bogs, I stumbled across some bones partially frozen in moss and overflow ice. After closer inspection, I determined the remains to be from a grizzly bear. The skull was smelly, but I knew it was big and worth an effort to keep. So, I brought it out, along with a couple vertebrae. There was meat and hide on the back of the skull, and some teeth were missing. I cleaned the skull and this time judged it to be from a mature brown bear. From that point on, I stored it in my attic. Almost 30 years later, I was remodeling the attic and came across the skull. I decided to score it and to my surprise it was larger than I thought. After studying the Boone & Crockett boundary descriptions for grizzlies and brown bears, I determined that the skull should be scored as a grizzly. I had it officially measured and was amazed to learn that this was, in fact, the largest grizzly ever recorded. It was quite a find.
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SKULLs
Dec 27, 2020 2:43:30 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 27, 2020 2:43:30 GMT -5
Reply #243 continued: TROPHY STATS SCORE: 27 13/16 LOCATION: Lone Mountain, Alaska HUNTER: Picked Up OWNER: Gordon E. Scott DATE: 1976 KEY MEASUREMENTS: Greatest length of skull: 17 4/16 Greatest width of skull: 10 9/16
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SKULLs
Dec 30, 2020 7:13:18 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 7:13:18 GMT -5
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SKULLs
Dec 30, 2020 7:43:36 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 7:43:36 GMT -5
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SKULLs
Dec 30, 2020 8:58:10 GMT -5
Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 30, 2020 8:58:10 GMT -5
Reply 227. The cave bear’s skull in the picture above makes these brown bear’s skull look small.
Don’t get me wrong, the brown bears’ have very strong and impressive skulls. It’s just that the cave bear is more impressive.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 9:54:30 GMT -5
Reply #227: we can see the huge difference between the skulls, but none of those are the largest skulls for their species by the way.
This is what the hunter said about those skulls:
Yes it is amazing how big they are. The middle skull I got last year hunting in alaska and the smaller skull i got in magadan russia 2011. They weighed approx 950 and 750 pounds, all rock hard muscle after sleeping for 6 months. Its amazing and a very humbling experience to hunt them. Also i guess a little nuts , but i'm a ironworker so i'm not all right in the head anyway. Hahaha. I couldn't imagine going up against something that was twice as big as my bears. Just to add the giant short faced bear was even bigger and who knows maybe some of the points in our collections seen a few if them.
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SKULLs
Dec 30, 2020 10:24:14 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 10:24:14 GMT -5
If this hunter/ironworker estimated those brown bears at 950 and 750 pounds, they were no doubt two very big bears. But like every nonprofessional ( not a bear biologist ), I'm sure that his weights were probably off by several pounds. Has anyone here stumbled upon the measurements of the biggest classic cave bear skull?
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 10:49:37 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 11:17:06 GMT -5
Nice find, Kodiak. From a study published in 2017. Interesting quote: "In some cases it is and will become difficult to distinguish largest Ursus spelaeus slelaeus male bones from small Ursus spelaeus ingressus females." 1- suggesting that there is a huge size difference between these two cave bears. 2- suggesting that U.s. spelaeus and U.s. ingressus are subspecies rather than separate species.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 11:21:22 GMT -5
Yes, i had noticed this statement, very interesting. Suggesting that Ingressus females might had been as large as Spelaeus males. (If we are interpreting this correctly).
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 12:54:19 GMT -5
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SKULLs
Dec 30, 2020 13:01:37 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 13:01:37 GMT -5
409 millimeters is equal to 16.10 inches / 445 millimeters is equal to 17.52 inches. 428 millimeters is equal to 16.85 inches.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 13:06:37 GMT -5
Reply #234: those lengths seem a bit low, they are smaller than the record modern bears. It does not specify if they were from adults. They might just be 3 random skulls which are not from adult specimens.
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Post by brobear on Dec 30, 2020 13:42:26 GMT -5
Reply #234: those lengths seem a bit low, they are smaller than the record modern bears. It does not specify if they were from adults. They might just be 3 random skulls which are not from adult specimens. Also; I have read how the cave bear's size would vary along with the Ice Age climatic changing conditions. The colder his environment, the bigger the cave bear.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 30, 2020 13:47:25 GMT -5
Reply #234: those lengths seem a bit low, they are smaller than the record modern bears. It does not specify if they were from adults. They might just be 3 random skulls which are not from adult specimens. Also; I have read how the cave bear's size would vary along with the Ice Age climatic changing conditions. The colder his environment, the bigger the cave bear. Yeah, Ingressus lived at higher elevations, thus a colder climate.
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SKULLs
Jan 1, 2021 5:46:05 GMT -5
Post by brobear on Jan 1, 2021 5:46:05 GMT -5
www.livescience.com/convergent-evolution.html What Is Convergent Evolution? Convergent evolution is when different organisms independently evolve similar traits. The skull of a short-faced bear is very cat-like. In fact, the basic shape of the skull of a short-faced bear appears more cat-like than bear-like. Considering the long legs and the heavy bodies of the giant short-faced bears ( both Arctodus and Arctotherium ) it has been proposed that it is unlikely that they were active predators. Why then, would these bears acquire through evolution such a cat-like skull?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 1, 2021 10:22:38 GMT -5
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