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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 8:36:03 GMT -5
I think a pleistocene grizzly bear will do well among smilodons as they have lived together in the same habitat.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 23, 2019 20:53:07 GMT -5
Same here I think the grizzly will win too because grizzlies were bigger back then then they are now and probably more aggressive as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 0:03:54 GMT -5
Plus they were way more carnivorous as there was way more choice of prey to hunt.
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Post by brobear on Mar 25, 2019 23:09:53 GMT -5
The Pleistocene Grizzly and Smilodon fatalis ... wildfact.com/forum/Most big-cat enthusiasts claim that Smilodon was pound-for-pound stronger than a grizzly. Sorry - I never believed that theory for a second. I would wager my bank account and all my possessions, including the clothes I'm wearing on the grizzly.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 26, 2019 4:27:32 GMT -5
I would wager my bank account and all my possessions, including the clothes I'm wearing on the grizzly.
Smart choice, you will win for sure. I would wager one of my legs. Smilodon is just a cat, lmao.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2019 8:45:15 GMT -5
The Pleistocene Grizzly and Smilodon fatalis ... wildfact.com/forum/Most big-cat enthusiasts claim that Smilodon was pound-for-pound stronger than a grizzly. Sorry - I never believed that theory for a second. I would wager my bank account and all my possessions, including the clothes I'm wearing on the grizzly. In this picture, the grizzly bear is heavier and bulkier, hence, its more powerful and thicker forearms.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 26, 2019 11:19:58 GMT -5
In this picture, the grizzly bear is heavier and bulkier, hence, its more powerful and thicker forearms.
Same story always. It has been this way since prehistoric times. Will never change. A bear is a bear and a cat is a cat.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 29, 2019 17:02:27 GMT -5
Agree especially since brown bear today still have strains of cave bear dna in them.
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Post by brobear on Apr 8, 2019 3:06:17 GMT -5
Smilodon.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 8:34:13 GMT -5
The polar bear will beat the smilodon of course. Not only is the bear larger but has stronger forearms to control the fight. The polar bears teeth cat also bite through the smilodon's skin as it can bite through the beluga, narwhale, and walruses much thicker skin. The smilodon might have its saber tooth to pierce the jagular vains of prey but it is not going to be was to stab the throat of another predator that is fighting back. If anything, the polar bear's paw can break the smilodon's tooth. Even the polar bear trashing around can break the smilodon's tooth as well. Of course the polar bear. It is said that the Smilodon’s tooth broke easily. This source confirms your opinion: carnivora.net/showthread.php?tid=425&pid=723#pid723
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Post by smedz on May 18, 2019 7:41:52 GMT -5
In the past, just like today, bears and big cats are mortal enemies, having no likings for each other. My current understanding is that the Eurasian Cave Lion would hunt Cave Bears while they were hibernating, this however, was a dangerous hunt, as some cave lion remains have in found in cave bear dens, clear evidence of battles where the lions lost. In North America, the Giant Short-Faced Bear was a king, using his size and power to take kills from other predators, and grizzlies, evolving in the open plains, had to be aggressive due having not many places to escape from danger. Bears are a formidable force for any big cat, one on one at least. It is debated as to if Smildon fatalis was social or not, but I do think so, but that's just me. American Lions if they were social, probably were in small groups from my understanding. One big cat we do have proof was social is Homotherium, evidence for this comes from Friesenhahn (hope I spelled that right) cave in Texas where many Homotherium cats have been found, including cubs, so this was clearly a family group. So while a grizzly could have killed one Scimitar Cat in a fight, it likely would have used his senses to avoid it for the cats social nature.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 18, 2019 11:36:47 GMT -5
I basically agree with all of that. It is also debated if cave lions hunted in prides or alone. Some sources state one thing, some sources state another. I believe either they hunted alone or in very small groups, that is why cave bears were able to kill some cave lions, even adult males.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 18, 2019 11:41:30 GMT -5
ARCTODUS VS SMILODON RECREATION. LOOKS LIKE THE BEAR WENT FOR THE CARCASS.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 18, 2019 11:46:09 GMT -5
“The much larger body size of A. simus would have provided an advantage in disputes over carcasses.” no Pleistocene big cat in his right mind would have defended a kill from the master. Better to go out hunting another day than to die today.
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Post by smedz on May 19, 2019 13:51:55 GMT -5
This is great! love the art!
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Post by smedz on May 24, 2019 19:34:51 GMT -5
Was Homotherium Social? When it comes to cats in the world of paleontology, there is one question that pops up. Was this animal social? Experts debate as to if Smilodon fatalis, Panthera Atrox, and Panthera Spelaea were social or not, with some, like Megantereon, there is every reason to believe they were solitary. I believe there is one prehistoric feline that was no doubt a social animal. That animal obviously is Homotherium. But why would they be social? where is the evidence? how would their social system have worked? Well let's look at the situation shall we? I will be using the works of Mauricio Anton as a source for information.
Question 1: Why would they be social?
To answer this, we must look at lions, as they are the only cats today that live in big family groups. Why are they social? Well it turns out that for cats as big as lions, there are big advantages for living in groups. One being that kills are much easier to see from a distance than in a forest, making them much easier to find, and cats can face serious competition in open plains. In the lions case, that would be the Spotted Hyena. For Homotherium, in the early Pleistocene, they coexisted with the hyena known as Pachycrocuta brevirostris, which was even bigger than a spotted hyena, likely linked to some aggressive scavenging behaviors. As for Homotherium Serum in North America, they lived with Dire Wolves on the open plains. One on one, a Homotherium would have been able to kill a Dire Wolf, a pack of Dire Wolves could have used teamwork to attack a female Homotherium with cubs. However, they couldn't take on a big group of them, as a group of big cats that's large enough with their greater combined weight and power is more than a match for a wolf pack. Another advantage is with hunting. Studies in Etosha National Park in Namibia have shown that lions when hunting in groups can overcome the problem of being detected by prey in spots with not much cover by coordinating their activities. Another advantage is mentioned in Anton's book "Sabertooth" which I will go ahead and quote. " Zoologists have long wondered why only modern lions among all the big cats are social, and the most convincing hypothesis to date suggests that the numerical advantage provided by a pride structure when competing with conspecifics for the highest quality territory is the key reason why lions group together (Mosser and Packer 2009). According to this hypothesis, the heterogeneity of savannah habitat would be an important cause of pride formation, because territory quality largely depends on proximity to river confluences, which serve as funnels that force prey into a small area and also hold persistent waterholes and dense vegetation. Lion groups that can defend such optimal territory gain clear advantages over prides that are forced to the periphery and need to make do with poorer-quality real estate." Credits to Mauricio Anton
One last advantage is also with hunting, as Homotherium actually wasn't as strong as a modern tiger or lion, and the claws were much more "reduced" if you will, and weren't retractable with the exception of the huge dewclaw, so hunting cooperatively would have helped add some firepower in hunting big game.
Question 2: Where's the evidence?
Evidence for these cats as social animals can be found at Friesenhahn Cave in Texas, where many Homotherium have been found, and different scimitars of different ages, including cubs have been found here. Clearly, this was a family group. These cats have been found in association with the remains of mammoths and a few mastodons. These weren't adults, but juveniles. Lion prides today hunt juvenile elephants, but only the biggest prides are able to do so due to the protection of the adult elephants. This takes lots of teamwork to seperate a target from the adults, making it more clear that this was a family unit.
Question 3: How did their social system work?
There are three types of large predator groups. Prides, packs, and clans. In a pride, a male or males is dominant, and breeds with all the females, and they defend territory. A pack is where one pair only breeds, and the others help raise the young. A clan is where females rule, and the males have crummy lives basically. I believe the Homotherium was in a pride. I was able to ask Mauricio Anton by email if there was any sexual dimorphism in Homotherium, and it is thought that they were dimorphic cats. A high degree of dimorphism is always associated with high levels of competition, since the biggest males win more battles and access to the females, in pack animals like wolves, there is very little dimorphism, so that gets ruled out, female spotted hyenas are bigger than the males, but there are no examples of a cat species where females are bigger than the males, so I believe for this reason, Homotherium was a pride animal.
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Post by smedz on May 26, 2019 13:23:36 GMT -5
Homotherium Locomotion Now for locomotion. Why is this such a big deal? the reason is because Homotherium appears to be unique in this department, why? the reason for that is the body proportions. The front legs of Homotherium are longer than the back legs, and the back slightly slopes downwards towards the hindquarters. Not only that, but the back is relatively short and rigid, meaning it wasn't as capable of sudden acceleration as modern big cats, but it probably meant that it could actually run over long distances, meaning this feline had good endurance, although less endurance than hyenas. The longer front legs would have allowed for the animal to make an easy canter, which is the most energy efficient gallop when it comes to long distance travel. The claws, except for the big dewclaw, were like those of a cheetah, and a cheetah uses those claws for traction when sprinting, but the body proportions of Homotherium were not as well suited to sprinting as a cheetah, so perhaps Homotherium used those claws for traction while running or travelling long distances across the plains.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 19:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 19:49:07 GMT -5
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Post by smedz on May 26, 2019 20:19:07 GMT -5
This is great OldBlueOne! Would have love to see these cats battle it out!
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