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Post by brobear on Mar 30, 2018 3:52:34 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Grizzly Bears view cougars as "Feline Gravy Train" "Cougars, however, generally give the bears a wide berth. Grizzlies have less competition with cougars than with other predators such as coyotes, wolves, and other bears. When a grizzly descends on a cougar feeding on its kill, the cougar usually gives way to the bear. When a cougar does stand its ground, the cougar will use its superior agility and its claws to harass the bear yet stay out of its reach until one of them gives up, usually the cat." Though grizzlies likely kill few cougars, they may see the cats as a feline gravy train. Between 1990 and 1995, wildlife biologist Kerry Murphy and other HWI researchers monitored 113 cougar kills (mostly deer and elk) in Glacier and Yellowstone and discovered that bears (grizzlies and blacks) were claiming a significant share of the spoils. Bruins visited about one of every four cougar kills, robbing the feline owner of as much as 26 percent of its food requirement, sometimes for several days running. "It appears," says Murphy, "that competition for kills creates significant gains for bears and significant losses for cougars." When carnivores clash: what happens when hunter becomes hunted? - includes related article on saving wolves findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1169/is_n4_v36/ai_20925079/ "Grizzly and Black bear visited 24% of cougar kills in GNP and YNP and displaced cougars from their kill 10% of carcasses. Bears gained up to 113% and cougars lost 26 % of their respective daily requirements from these encounters. Bear predation and incomplete consumption of carcasses (especially salmon) provide food for a variety of scavengers." COSEWIC: Assessment and Update Status Report of the Grizzly Bear Ursus arctos in Canada dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection/CW69-14-166-2002E.pdf
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Post by brobear on Mar 30, 2018 22:12:08 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Bear Mortality by Cougars I think recent research show both black/grizzly bears to benefit from cougar production of animal matter. Honestly, I have a hard time believing old 19th century American West accounts of the larger grizzly and black bear fatality involving cougars (35-85 kg) who rarely exceed 200 lbs. After a strong search of the literature, the only piece of information I found was a percentage (%) occurrence of prey calculation by authors Kerry Murphy and Toni K. Ruth (see below reference) showing black bears in Montana/Wyoming to make up 1% of cougar diet. No additional victim profile information (e.g., cubs) is given. The authors do note that scat analysis of animal matter does not always mean predation explaining how cougars can also scavenge carrion. IMO, one of the best, comprehensive cougar publications came out a few years ago: Hornocker, M., and S. Negri (Eds.). 2009. Cougar: ecology and conservation. University of Chicago Press. Chicago, IL. The book has terrific data on cougar predatory/prey relations and cougar interference competition dynamics as it relates to bears covering both North & South America including black & grizzly bear relations and to some extent (if one interprets the absence of data as information) spectacle bear relations. On the latter, there were no spectacled bear signatures in South American cougar diet analysis.
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Post by brobear on Mar 30, 2018 22:21:14 GMT -5
Or; the wolf pack, the black bear, or the grizzly displace the cougar from his kill. Happens often.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 1:22:16 GMT -5
Game on? Cougars will flee from a determined bear wanting their kills. Honestly the only times a cougar would dare fight the likes of a grizzly bear (even less a black bear), it would have to be incredibly desperate for food or defending its cubs, or incredibly overly confident. A cougar would have an incredibly difficult time getting past the bears 'armor' of muscle and fat. They're durable, stocky, and surprisingly fast. A cougar foolish enough to fight a grizzly would lose practically every time. The cougar can perhaps harass the bigger animal with some swats and bites and then run away, but to actually physically bring down the big brownie? Not happening unless REALLY exceptional or other factors involved (not normal ones). I also remain skeptical about the so called accounts about cougars bringing down these giants. The same applies with leopards somehow killing tigers. Not saying it's impossible due to chance and various other factors, but if there's so many of those instances, why don't we see these instances today? Most of those accounts are eye witnessed accounts and possibly fabricated to sell news. Why aren't we seeing more of these instances of smaller predators bringing down bigger ones with the use of cameras and television? It's the same crap about a lion that supposedly brought down a white rhino all by itself in a book, yet a pride of lions will avoid them with video evidence showing it. Give me a break.
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Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2018 2:29:47 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Grizzly Bears view cougars as "Feline Gravy Train" "Cougars, however, generally give the bears a wide berth. Grizzlies have less competition with cougars than with other predators such as coyotes, wolves, and other bears. When a grizzly descends on a cougar feeding on its kill, the cougar usually gives way to the bear. When a cougar does stand its ground, the cougar will use its superior agility and its claws to harass the bear yet stay out of its reach until one of them gives up, usually the cat." Though grizzlies likely kill few cougars, they may see the cats as a feline gravy train. Between 1990 and 1995, wildlife biologist Kerry Murphy and other HWI researchers monitored 113 cougar kills (mostly deer and elk) in Glacier and Yellowstone and discovered that bears (grizzlies and blacks) were claiming a significant share of the spoils. Bruins visited about one of every four cougar kills, robbing the feline owner of as much as 26 percent of its food requirement, sometimes for several days running. "It appears," says Murphy, "that competition for kills creates significant gains for bears and significant losses for cougars." "Grizzly and Black bear visited 24% of cougar kills in GNP and YNP and displaced cougars from their kill 10% of carcasses. Bears gained up to 113% and cougars lost 26 % of their respective daily requirements from these encounters. Bear predation and incomplete consumption of carcasses (especially salmon) provide food for a variety of scavengers." COSEWIC: Assessment and Update Status Report of the Grizzly Bear Ursus arctos in Canada dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection/CW69-14-166-2002E.pdf
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Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2018 2:31:15 GMT -5
... shaggygod.proboards.com/Bear Mortality by Cougars I think recent research show both black/grizzly bears to benefit from cougar production of animal matter. Honestly, I have a hard time believing old 19th century American West accounts of the larger grizzly and black bear fatality involving cougars (35-85 kg) who rarely exceed 200 lbs. After a strong search of the literature, the only piece of information I found was a percentage (%) occurrence of prey calculation by authors Kerry Murphy and Toni K. Ruth (see below reference) showing black bears in Montana/Wyoming to make up 1% of cougar diet. No additional victim profile information (e.g., cubs) is given. The authors do note that scat analysis of animal matter does not always mean predation explaining how cougars can also scavenge carrion. IMO, one of the best, comprehensive cougar publications came out a few years ago: Hornocker, M., and S. Negri (Eds.). 2009. Cougar: ecology and conservation. University of Chicago Press. Chicago, IL. The book has terrific data on cougar predatory/prey relations and cougar interference competition dynamics as it relates to bears covering both North & South America including black & grizzly bear relations and to some extent (if one interprets the absence of data as information) spectacle bear relations. On the latter, there were no spectacled bear signatures in South American cougar diet analysis.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 21, 2018 20:10:29 GMT -5
Thats true.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 2:41:40 GMT -5
I was reading reports of cougars killing adult grizzly bears and I must say that I don't buy into the nonsense of a cougar killing a adult grizzly or even a subadult. I just don't think it's true because we know from sources that grizzlies steal carcasses from cougars. I think sites are purposely putting up misinformation to fulfill their agenda which is sad because all this type of stuff do it just confuse people that actually want to learn.
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Post by brobear on Nov 12, 2018 4:27:22 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Post by grrraaahhh on Dec 14, 2011 at 8:28pm Bear Mortality by Cougars I think recent research show both black/grizzly bears to benefit from cougar production of animal matter. Honestly, I have a hard time believing old 19th century American West accounts of the larger grizzly and black bear fatality involving cougars (35-85 kg) who rarely exceed 200 lbs. After a strong search of the literature, the only piece of information I found was a percentage (%) occurrence of prey calculation by authors Kerry Murphy and Toni K. Ruth (see below reference) showing black bears in Montana/Wyoming to make up 1% of cougar diet. No additional victim profile information (e.g., cubs) is given. The authors do note that scat analysis of animal matter does not always mean predation explaining how cougars can also scavenge carrion. IMO, one of the best, comprehensive cougar publications came out a few years ago: Hornocker, M., and S. Negri (Eds.). 2009. Cougar: ecology and conservation. University of Chicago Press. Chicago, IL. The book has terrific data on cougar predatory/prey relations and cougar interference competition dynamics as it relates to bears covering both North & South America including black & grizzly bear relations and to some extent (if one interprets the absence of data as information) spectacle bear relations. On the latter, there were no spectacled bear signatures in South American cougar diet analysis.
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Post by brobear on Nov 12, 2018 4:33:07 GMT -5
Consider that "tall tells" was a favorite passtime during the nineteenth century Old West. One "Old Timer" told a story about watch a cougar vs grizzly fight and put his spin on the story. To start with, no cougar is ever going to fight a grizzly. But if he did such a fight could only have one possible ending.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2018 6:39:48 GMT -5
If you guys noticed, all those reports are from 100 years ago, not one is in the last 100 years. If cougars were killing adult grizzlies before, why not now? Why they stoped? That there should tell you its crap. Even black bears are known to beat cougars.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2018 6:48:09 GMT -5
Here is another example of recent news. Female black bear beats mountain lion, the mountain lion runs away. Bear Saves Robert Biggs From Mountain Lion Attack In California 03/29/2012 02:24 PM ET | Updated Dec 06, 2017 When Robert Biggs finished gazing at a cute, cuddly family of black bears and turned to continue on his day-hike in northern California on Monday, he thought he was safe. The 69-year-old man from the town of Paradise was anything but. Advertisement AdChoices He’d been watching a mother bear, her yearling and a newborn from about 40 feet away, but he had no idea that he was being stalked by a ferocious mountain lion. As he turned to leave, the cat pounced on his backpack with all four paws. See the photo below “He grabbed me from behind and knocked me to the ground,” Biggs told The Huffington Post. “I was on my knees. I had my rock pick out because i was on a steep incline, and I smashed the cat in the head with it. He screamed, but he didn’t let go.” His backpack and rock pick were the only things standing between him and certain death, Biggs said. He raised his weapon again for another swing at the hulking feline. “That’s when a blur on my left side grabbed the lion by its throat — turns out it was the momma bear,” he said. “I heard a tremendous screeching, some growling noises.” Biggs said that the bear ripped the cat’s grip from his backpack, and the two titans clashed for another 15 seconds. The bear won the battle, probably because it “outweighed the cat 400 pounds to 100 pounds.” The cat ran away, and the bear went back down on all fours, humbly making eye contact with Biggs before regrouping with her young. Biggs — who had been hiking the same two-mile trail in the Bean Soup Flat area for years — left with a few scratches and bruises on his arm. Being a mountain man, he refused his wife’s pleas that he go to the hospital, and instead put some peroxide on his wounds. He told The Huffington Post that he owes everything to that bear. “I’m 100-percent sure it did want to save my life,” he said. “We made eye contact. I’d seen the bears before and I know she knew who I was.” m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1388219
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2018 7:33:29 GMT -5
This video will say it all. The famous video of the grizzly CUB that made a full grown mother puma ran away.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:41:00 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Post by grrraaahhh on Dec 14, 2011 at 8:28pm Bear Mortality by Cougars I think recent research show both black/grizzly bears to benefit from cougar production of animal matter. Honestly, I have a hard time believing old 19th century American West accounts of the larger grizzly and black bear fatality involving cougars (35-85 kg) who rarely exceed 200 lbs. After a strong search of the literature, the only piece of information I found was a percentage (%) occurrence of prey calculation by authors Kerry Murphy and Toni K. Ruth (see below reference) showing black bears in Montana/Wyoming to make up 1% of cougar diet. No additional victim profile information (e.g., cubs) is given. The authors do note that scat analysis of animal matter does not always mean predation explaining how cougars can also scavenge carrion. IMO, one of the best, comprehensive cougar publications came out a few years ago: Hornocker, M., and S. Negri (Eds.). 2009. Cougar: ecology and conservation. University of Chicago Press. Chicago, IL. The book has terrific data on cougar predatory/prey relations and cougar interference competition dynamics as it relates to bears covering both North & South America including black & grizzly bear relations and to some extent (if one interprets the absence of data as information) spectacle bear relations. On the latter, there were no spectacled bear signatures in South American cougar diet analysis. That's a a very good point that you brought up. A scat sample can not be always be reliable because it don't mean that the victim was killed. Great find I never even thought of it like this. We can now assume the same for bears samples found in tiger scat.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:42:13 GMT -5
Consider that "tall tells" was a favorite passtime during the nineteenth century Old West. One "Old Timer" told a story about watch a cougar vs grizzly fight and put his spin on the story. To start with, no cougar is ever going to fight a grizzly. But if he did such a fight could only have one possible ending. I agree. I think a cougar that chooses to fight a grizzly is pure suicide.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:47:48 GMT -5
If you guys noticed, all those reports are from 100 years ago, not one is in the last 100 years. If cougars were killing adult grizzlies before, why not now? Why they stoped? That there should tell you its crap. Even black bears are known to beat cougars. That's a very good point Kodiak. If it were true it would happen now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:52:52 GMT -5
I think this fight is a mismatch and heavily favors the grizzly without question.
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Post by King Kodiak on Nov 12, 2018 23:11:04 GMT -5
I think this fight is a mismatch and heavily favors the grizzly without question. in face to face, the cougar stands zero chance.
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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2018 1:41:46 GMT -5
Not leopards, cougars, nor even jaguars prey upon bears of any species other than small cubs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 3:55:18 GMT -5
I think this fight is a mismatch and heavily favors the grizzly without question. in face to face, the cougar stands zero chance. Agree 100%
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