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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 6, 2019 7:46:46 GMT -5
how does a mother grizzly react when her cubs are threatened by a tiger?
There are no videos of this of course, but you can just ask “Dale”, he almost died.
and we already seen what a female sloth bear would do. video says it all.
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Post by tom on Jan 8, 2019 9:53:54 GMT -5
First of all I was referring to Grizzly Sows. I have never witnessed personally a sow backing down when protecting her Cubs, even against a large boar. If there's video footage I haven't seen it.
Secondly, no where in that Polar Bear video do I see where the momma bear is "sacrificing" anything?? She makes attempts to save her cub but realizes its futile. She may have not risked being killed by not being more bold, but no way is this a sacrifice.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 8, 2019 12:43:28 GMT -5
Definatly agree with Tom here. that polar bear video shows nowhere near a “sacrifice” Anyways, i dont think there is a video like that of a brown bear.
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 8, 2019 20:52:07 GMT -5
By "sacrifice" I do not mean any type of Isaac/Aztec human religious ceremony.
Bear-mother must choose to die fighting cannibal male or give up/sacrifice cub.
Either way the cub dies.
Cub of small size cannot survive on own abilities.
But adult female can live on to produce more cubs.
It is true that all large bear species will/do cannibalise cubs.
Bear-mother knows that cannibal male bear is not in category of tiger.
Tiger who specially hunts bear will not be satisfied with cub-kill only.
Bear-mother knows it will be mortal combat against this assassin tiger.
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Post by brobear on Jan 9, 2019 2:17:26 GMT -5
Any and all species can find themselves with a choice like this. But no, I would not call this sacrifice. I would call it despair; total hopelessness; helpless to save those you love. Consider when a new male comes into the territory of the big cat ( lion or tiger ). He fights and kills the previous king. This big powerful male now sets out to kill all of the cubs of the previous king. Life in the wild is cold and hard.
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Post by tom on Jan 9, 2019 2:26:59 GMT -5
IMO that female Polar Bear DID NOT sacrifice her cub. She made attempts to save it but could not. You could make the argument that she did not fight to the death to save it, but offering no resistance at all would be more along the lines of a "Sacrifice" to me.
Now... I happen to believe (from watching countless videos) that a sow Grizzly would have presented herself between the boar and her cub, using all of her might to deter any harm from coming to her cub. She would have fought relentlessly till she was either killed or drove the boar away. Female Grizzlies are extremely protective if it not THEE most protective of their young than any mammal, including other species of Bears.
Here mom Grizzly becomes quite a force when her cub is near.
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Post by tom on Jan 9, 2019 2:50:39 GMT -5
Here's another one. This female is not backing down even after a the boar comes back for a second time.
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Post by brobear on Jan 9, 2019 4:13:22 GMT -5
Two bear qualities very evident in both of Tom's videos. First, Mama Bear's determination to protect her cubs even from a bigger and stronger adversary. Second, the grizzly paw-strike is plainly seen in both videos.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 9, 2019 4:45:44 GMT -5
Here's another one. This female is not backing down even after a the boar comes back for a second time. Awesome video Tom. This is the video i was looking for, i had seen it long time ago and i have never seen an animal so ferocious and pissed off when defending her cubs. This video is the very best example here.
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 9, 2019 18:06:44 GMT -5
Interesting video Tom.
I have seen alternative presentation of second video without extra/added emotive human comment.
This video stated that immature male bear was son of female from earlier litter trying for food.
Bear-mother will not tolerate this and drives son away.
Hysterical commentary in video shown is for effect by sensationalist editor/producer.
Beach video showed male bear taking seal remains after bluff by female failed.
Cub was not in direct danger of cannibalism if alternative food source is available.
Actual aggression level shown is less than often seen within lion prides over feeding order.
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Post by brobear on Jan 10, 2019 0:22:42 GMT -5
The main focus for the huge boar grizzly was the carcass. But he would have killed for it. "Immature" does not describe the bear in the video. Extra/added comments from who? Kamchatka, if your purpose here is simply to spam then from this point forward your posts will all be deleted. Thus far, you have contributed little.
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Post by tom on Jan 10, 2019 0:30:02 GMT -5
Interesting video Tom. I have seen alternative presentation of second video without extra/added emotive human comment. This video stated that immature male bear was son of female from earlier litter trying for food. Bear-mother will not tolerate this and drives son away. Hysterical commentary in video shown is for effect by sensationalist editor/producer. Beach video showed male bear taking seal remains after bluff by female failed. Cub was not in direct danger of cannibalism if alternative food source is available. Actual aggression level shown is less than often seen within lion prides over feeding order. I would like to see this alternative presentation of the 2nd video if you can provide a link? or are we going to keep playing this game of posting denials with nothing to back up your claim? So Kam, even if this were true, are you essentially saying if this male Grizzly had not been this sow's previous cub (which I still question as fact), she would have turned tail and ran? I think not. The first video I posted. This was not a bluff at all, she made contact and fought. Definition of bluff " an attempt to deceive someone into believing that one can or will do something".We'll she definitely did do something. But you are correct in that the boar was not interested in the cub, but rather the seal.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 10, 2019 5:26:23 GMT -5
The boar was interested in the seal yes, but if it was allowed closer, the cubs would have been in danger also, the boar would have probably went after them too. the boar was starving.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 10, 2019 5:33:43 GMT -5
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 10, 2019 16:40:53 GMT -5
Tom do you have fluency in language other than English?
Understanding commentary of other presentation of same video requires this.
But look at relative size of bear-mother and obviously immature male bear in video.
She is actually mother to that still weak no-territory adolescent male.
Here is what 'boss of woods' male brown bear will really do.
Black bear-mother is forced to sacrifice one cub to save others and self.
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 10, 2019 17:27:25 GMT -5
Grizzly male may be redirected by another mother who is fiercely protecting her cubs.
See interaction at 4 minutes into video:
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 10, 2019 17:33:47 GMT -5
What exactly are you trying to prove here Kamchatka? Mother brown bears are known to be the very best mothers, even fighting off male bears, fighting off a pack of wolves. Countless videos and documentaries showing this. Its a fact. Go to the wild and get close to a bear cub and and see for yourself. so whatever it is you are trying to prove, well you are not.
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 10, 2019 18:00:35 GMT -5
Big 'boss' male bear who is determined to kill cubs will certainly do so.
Bear-mother can make best attempt to convince him not to but will fail if male is too strong.
You must accept this is natural fact.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 10, 2019 18:15:00 GMT -5
Big 'boss' male bear who is determined to kill cubs will certainly do so. Bear-mother can make best attempt to convince him not to but will fail if male is too strong. You must accept this is natural fact. No one ever denied that. But the mother bear will surely fight until death most probably, thats the whole point.
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Post by Kamchatka on Jan 10, 2019 18:23:21 GMT -5
No.
That "mother bear will surely fight until death" is your assumption.
Where is your proof for that?
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