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Post by King Kodiak on Jul 9, 2020 10:06:38 GMT -5
I definitely agree. They should had left these 3 as different subspecies. I dont agree with 86 either, but definitely more than 2.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jul 9, 2020 20:25:57 GMT -5
The Ussuri brown bear is called the black grizzly in the Far East and looks different from the grizzlies of the west and it is classified as a different subspecies too.
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Post by BruteStrength on Jul 11, 2020 21:46:56 GMT -5
The ussuri brown bear should be called the tiger killer bear because this is the bear that fights tigers and will win and come out unscathed.
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Post by brobear on Dec 1, 2020 8:06:00 GMT -5
I definitely agree. They should had left these 3 as different subspecies. I dont agree with 86 either, but definitely more than 2. There should be no less than three subspecies of brown bears in N. America: Kodiak bear - Ursus arctos middendorffi / grizzly bear - Ursus arctos horribilis / and the Alaskan peninsula bear - Ursus arctos gyas.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 1, 2020 10:57:44 GMT -5
I definitely agree. They should had left these 3 as different subspecies. I dont agree with 86 either, but definitely more than 2. There should be no less than three subspecies of brown bears in N. America: Kodiak bear - Ursus arctos middendorffi / grizzly bear - Ursus arctos horribilis / and the Alaskan peninsula bear - Ursus arctos gyas. I agree, those 3 for sure. How about the Barren ground grizzly though?
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Post by brobear on Dec 1, 2020 11:22:46 GMT -5
Since 'Taker showed that the barren ground grizzly in some locations are just as big as Rocky Mountain grizzlies, I can be satisfied either way. Not a huge difference from other inland grizzlies.
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Post by brobear on Dec 3, 2020 13:27:39 GMT -5
IF the Mexican grizzly and the California grizzly were still around; they too would be listed ( IMO ) as Ursus arctos horribilis. Meanwhile, we have 16 subspecies of American black bears???
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 3, 2020 14:32:31 GMT -5
Well the California grizzly would be on the West coast, its a coastal brown bear, so in reality it should stay as its own subspecies (Ursus arctos californicus). It was very similar in size and color with the Kodiak bear.
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Post by brobear on Dec 4, 2020 5:47:36 GMT -5
Well the California grizzly would be on the West coast, its a coastal brown bear, so in reality it should stay as its own subspecies (Ursus arctos californicus). It was very similar in size and color with the Kodiak bear. I agree that it should remain as (Ursus arctos californicus). However, the Alaskan peninsula brown bear ( which should be gyas ) is listed as horribilis. As long as the California grizzly and the Mexican grizzly remain extinct, they can keep their separate identities.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 4, 2020 7:22:32 GMT -5
The Carlifornian grizzly bear is the only bear other than the kodiak which rivals the size and weight of the polar bear. I would go as far as to say the Carlifornian grizzly bear is more aggressive than the Kodiak bear despite being just as powerful as the latter.
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Post by brobear on Dec 4, 2020 7:46:09 GMT -5
The Carlifornian grizzly bear is the only bear other than the kodiak which rivals the size and weight of the polar bear. I would go as far as to say the Carlifornian grizzly bear is more aggressive than the Kodiak bear despite being just as powerful as the latter. Unfortunately, all we really have are old tales from the 1800s and early 1900s. We have no way of sorting out truth from fiction, or accuracy from exaggeration. It is the common belief, solely attributed to those old tales, that the California grizzly aka "golden bear" rivaled the Kodiak bear in size. Maybe he did. He had no need to hibernate. We know that he was seen year-round from all that was told of him all through the seasons. Question is; what was in his diet?
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 4, 2020 7:50:36 GMT -5
With no need to hibernate, the Carlifornian grizzly might actually be heavier (if it had the same amount of fat). What is its diet? I believe you posted an account where it is 85% carnivorous.
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Post by brobear on Dec 4, 2020 8:08:59 GMT -5
With no need to hibernate, the Carlifornian grizzly might actually be heavier (if it had the same amount of fat). What is its diet? I believe you posted an account where it is 85% carnivorous. As a general rule, the grizzlies were roughly 80% carnivore/20% vegetarian. Today, just the opposite. As a general rule, a grizzly is roughly 80% vegetarian/20% carnivore. Of course, many exceptions among individuals. We simply don't know what the California grizzly dined on for him to become so large. Perhaps young Stellar sea lions and young elephant seals? An occasional beached whale?
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Post by brobear on Dec 4, 2020 9:03:27 GMT -5
Opening post on the Mexican grizzly thread: "The Mexican grizzly bear (Ursus arctos; formerly Ursus arctos nelsoni) is an extinct population of the grizzly bear." ( I'm sure they meant U.a. horribilis ).
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 4, 2020 10:04:05 GMT -5
Reply 92. Sometimes jackals eat seal pups and sea lion pups wash up on the beach. This being said, I will not be surprise if the Carlifornian grizzly’s diet included that of sea lion and elephant seal pups as well as beached whales as you mentioned.
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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 4, 2020 10:41:51 GMT -5
Opening post on the Mexican grizzly thread: "The Mexican grizzly bear (Ursus arctos; formerly Ursus arctos nelsoni) is an extinct population of the grizzly bear." ( I'm sure they meant U.a. horribilis ). At the time i had copied and pasted that from Wiki, it just said "Ursus arctos", now i just looked and they added Horribilis:
The Mexican grizzly bear (Ursus arctos horribilis; formerly Ursus arctos nelsoni) is an extinct population of the grizzly bear in Mexico.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_grizzly_bear
I already updated the first post:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/11997/thread
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Post by brobear on Dec 7, 2020 5:42:16 GMT -5
Quote: I already updated the first post: *Thank you Kodiak; good job. Quote: Sometimes jackals eat seal pups and sea lion pups wash up on the beach. This being said, I will not be surprise if the Carlifornian grizzly’s diet included that of sea lion and elephant seal pups as well as beached whales as you mentioned. *Not only pups. The California grizzly could kill full-grown sea lions and juvenile elephant seals perhaps up to roughly a ton ( 2,000 pounds )... I have no doubts.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 7, 2020 6:57:28 GMT -5
Polar bears prey on walruses. Female elephant seals are five times lighter than their male counterparts and would be included on the menu of the Californian grizzly bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 20, 2020 1:07:43 GMT -5
Reply 37. I guess the Japanese brown bear and Ussuri brown bear have both become one after all.
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Post by brobear on Dec 20, 2020 3:57:39 GMT -5
The Hokkaido Brown Bear has been isolated from other brown bears for 20,000 years. The Kodiak bear has been isolated on islands for 12,000 years and is therefore considered a separate subspecies that all other brown bears in North America. Its elementary. From Reply #23: Heaviest bear in this study was 520 kg (1146,5 lbs), chest girth 250 cm (8,2 ft or 8 ft 2,4 in) and body length from tip of the nose to rump 260 cm (8,5 ft or 8 ft 6,4 in). 520 kg (1146.5 lbs) Head-and-body length: 260cm ( 8 feet 6 inches ). Chest girth: 250cm ( 8 feet 2 inches ). The biologists of the world often find themselves in disagreement. Therefore some will refer to the Hokkaido brown bear as U.a. lasiotus and some as U.a. yesoensis. Personally, I prefer the latter.
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