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Post by brobear on Oct 11, 2018 6:44:09 GMT -5
I will simply go along with Doug's take on the issue of which bears are grizzly bears ( Ursus arctos horribilis )? The Kodiak bear is a brown bear. The Kodiak bear is a grizzly.
TRUE GRIZZ by Douglas H. Chadwick.
VITALS continued: Scientific Name: Ursus arctos horribilis. The species Ursus arctos, called the brown bear, is distributed around the Northern Hemisphere. Eurasian populations occur from Scandinavia to Russia's Pacific shores and as far south as northern India, Iran, and Spain. North America has a variety of identifiable races and ecotypes. Most experts classify them together as the subspecies horribilis. This includes the big bears of Kodiak Island and brown bears of the Pacific mainland coast, as well as the interior brown bears whose fur more often has the frosted, or grizzled, appearance that gave rise to the label "grizzly". It is a common and accepted practice to refer to all New World brown bears as "Grizzly".
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 11, 2018 7:01:41 GMT -5
Yes that might be correct Brobear, all brown bears might be grizzlies as you like to say. But....but......there is one particular brown bear subspecies officially called....... URSUS ARCTOS MIDDENDORFFI. the best of the land baby.
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Post by brobear on Oct 11, 2018 7:13:09 GMT -5
Yes that might be correct Brobear, all brown bears might be grizzlies as you like to say. But....but......there is one particular brown bear subspecies officially called....... URSUS ARCTOS MIDDENDORFFI. the best of the land baby. IF you scroll up about 2 posts ( wish the HELL this site numbered posts ) and this is recent material... there are officially 6 sub-species of American brown bears. But commonly, and this includes a great many field biologists and park rangers, all American brown bears are grizzlies. But yes, the Kodiak ( like Andre the giant ) is in a class all his own.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 11, 2018 7:49:22 GMT -5
Maybe Polar can fix that and add the posts numbers on this site.
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Post by brobear on Oct 11, 2018 8:11:14 GMT -5
Maybe Polar can fix that and add the posts numbers on this site. We could use the services of a real geek in our Domain ( no insults intended here ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 11, 2018 9:09:19 GMT -5
Lol. Your words.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 21, 2018 9:46:28 GMT -5
Brobear....there is some controversy in North america with the brown bear subspecies. Most bear biologists recognize only 2 subspecies, the grizzly bear (U.a. horribilis) And the Kodiak bear (U.a. middendorffi). The coastal brown bear is recognized as the same subspecie as the grizzly bear. (Most bear biologists).
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Post by brobear on Oct 21, 2018 10:37:39 GMT -5
Brobear....there is some controversy in North america with the brown bear subspecies. Most bear biologists recognize only 2 subspecies, the grizzly bear (U.a. horribilis) And the Kodiak bear (U.a. middendorffi). The coastal brown bear is recognized as the same subspecie as the grizzly bear. (Most bear biologists). There has been from the beginning controversy among the experts. There are really no distinct rule as to exactly what factors determine a subspecies. Each separate population of brown bears have their own unique qualities. The longer separated from other populations, it seems, the greater their differences. It has been assumed by some that the Kodiak bear descended from the Kamchatka population while the grizzly from the Ussuri population. This is all speculation. Needless to say, it is nothing more than a problem for biologists to categorize. All brown bears ( grizzly in America ) are Ursus arctos.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 21, 2018 10:45:41 GMT -5
Thats really the bottom line here (URSUS ARCTOS). All of them are. But officially, only 2 brown bear subspecies.
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Post by brobear on Oct 21, 2018 10:50:12 GMT -5
Thats really the bottom line here (URSUS ARCTOS). All of them are. But officially, only 2 brown bear subspecies. Only two in North America.
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Post by King Kodiak on Oct 21, 2018 11:38:50 GMT -5
Yes sir. but not just any two. One of them is URSUS ARCTOS MIDDENDORFFI.
THE BEST OF THE LAND.
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Post by brobear on Oct 21, 2018 12:13:22 GMT -5
Yes sir. but not just any two. One of them is URSUS ARCTOS MIDDENDORFFI. THE BEST OF THE LAND. We all have our favorites. The Kodiak giant is today's biggest brownie for sure.
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2018 17:12:13 GMT -5
shaggygod.proboards.com/ Jun 11, 2011 at 10:37am QuotePost Options Post by grrraaahhh on Jun 11, 2011 at 10:37am Are Bear Subspecies a Thing of the Past? The subspecies concept has had a tortuous history, in part because the definition of a subspecies is rather vague. Before recent genetic advances, subspecies were distinguished only by morphological traits, which are open to varying interpretations. This ambiguity makes it difficult to use subspecies as a definitive unit for conservation. Subspecies have remained controversial because taxonomists have historically cataloged far too many of them to be truly useful entities. Legendary evolutionary biologist Ernst Mayr (1982) concluded that “subspecies fulfilled a most important historical role by undermining the essentialistic species concept and also by contributing to a far better understanding of the geographic variation of species.” Subspecies have aroused much criticism in recent years because molecular phylogenetic findings often do not corroborate historically-identified subspecies (except those on islands; Phillimore and Owens 2006). In an extensive literature review, Haig et al. (1996) “found no universally accepted subspecies definition within or across taxa.” Here’s a definition from Wikipedia: “Organisms that belong to different subspecies of the same species are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, but they often do not interbreed in nature due to geographic isolation or other factors.” This is a little confusing in that several bear species can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, but they generally do not. For example, brown bears and polar bears may appear to fit this subspecies definition. But with distinct species, we also assume some sort of behavioral separation that deters interbreeding. In order for a subspecies to exist within the range of the broader species, there must be geographical separation sufficient to markedly deter gene flow. Thus bears of truly different subspecies would rarely encounter each other in the wild. Exceptions to this situation may occur with human intervention, as in the case of translocations and reintroductions. For example, in the U.S. during the 1960s, about 160 American black bears from Minnesota were reintroduced into Louisiana, where a small extant population of another (purported) subspecies existed. This sort of reintroduction is not typical today: bear biologists are more cognizant of using stocks for reintroduction that are similar genetically to the local population. But in this day of high-powered genetic testing, have we cast the subspecies concept aside? Most North American bear biologists would not concur with (or even be aware of) the 16 subspecies of American black bear that are still formally accepted by mammalogists (see listing of all currently-recognized subspecies of extant ursids at: www.bucknell.edu/msw3/browse.asp?id=14000939). Genetic isolation is murky even among the three most notable subspecies, Ursus americanus luteolus, U. a. floridanus, and U. a. kermodei (from Louisiana, Florida, and British Columbia, respectively), all of which have been given special legislative protection. The Kermode or “spirit” bear has a single recessive unique nucleotide in white-phased individuals (which is particularly common on islands) but is not genetically isolated from other populations (Marshall and Ritland 2002). In Asia, however, the subspecies concept seems alive and well, and it’s not just that Asian bear biologists are clinging to “old-school” taxonomy. In Asia, there are certain island populations that are sufficiently far from shore, and thus genetically separate, that historical subspecies designations are probably warranted: sloth bears in Sri Lanka (Melursus ursinus inornatus), sun bears on Borneo (Helarctos malayanus euryspilus) [with these two, the generic name is more disputed than the subspecific designation], and Asiatic black bears in Japan (Ursus thibetanus japonicas) and Taiwan (U. t. formosanus). But there are other recognized subspecies on the mainland that also seem fitting of their designation due to long-term isolation: Isabelline (brown) bears (Ursus arctos isabellinus), ranging from northern India to Mongolia (including the “Gobi bear”), and the Baluchistan black bear (U. t. gedrosianus) in southern Iran and Pakistan, are notable examples. But what prompts us to write this piece is the recent genetic investigation of what to most readers will be an unrecognized subspecies – the Ussuri black bear (U. t. ussuricus), so named because it lives near the Ussuri River in the Russian Far East. The northern part of the range of the Asiatic black bear is disjunct: it includes the Russian Far East, the Korean Peninsula, and northeast China. There is a large gap from there to Asiatic black bear populations in central China, caused by a long history of intensive land use by humans (as well as probable heavy exploitation of bears for gall bladders in Chinese population centers). So it makes some sense that this most northern cluster of black bears might be a distinct subspecies. But one might ask how long a period of separation is required for a subspecies to form? The gap between this northern area and other parts of China is not long in evolutionary terms – maybe a few thousand years – and the gap may not have completely blocked gene flow until much more recently (there appear to be a few scattered records of a bears wandering in this area in the past 200 years). Recent genetics work, though, seems to corroborate the northern group as a distinct “evolutionary significant unit (ESU)”, a more precise term that may correspond to subspecies. This recent work shows a clear genetic distinction between the Ussuri bear and bears of central China (Hwang et al. 2008), Japan, and Southeast Asia (Kim et al. 2011). We asked the authors of the later paper to write an article for International Bear News (see following article) because we thought their results were intriguing, and, like a previous genetic investigation of the Isabelline bear (Galbreath et al. 2007), revive the concept of the subspecies. It’s certainly fine for geneticists and conservations to talk about ESUs, but we think that the old subspecies names, if they withstand genetic scrutiny, have a certain natural appeal that can aid conservation. Our view is consistent with that of Kitchener (2010), who recently reviewed the taxonomy of the world’s bears and discussed the potential conservation benefits of distinct taxonomic names. Kitchener thought it was worth recognizing some subspecies, and supported the distinction of U. t. ussuricus, even before publication of the new genetics work. On the other hand, we must guard against naming or retaining existing names of subspecies simply to highlight a group of bears in an area of conservation concern. Identification of genetically-based morphological characteristics that are grouped within a distinct, isolated region (i.e., not just clinical variation) should help sort out the real subspecies from the “imposters”. Genetic work supported the reintroduction of Asiatic black bears from Russia and N. Korea into a small remnant population in southern S. Korea, because this is all a single clade. This work also provided evidence that the Ussuri subspecies may be real. However, more extensive comparisons now ongoing across the range of this species could still challenge that, and redraw the subspecies map.
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Post by brobear on Dec 16, 2018 8:41:15 GMT -5
Brown Bears of Russia. www.russianhunting.com/russian-bear-hunting/ Russian Bear Subpecies Russia is home to several subspecies of brown bear found in different parts of the country and our hunting methods depend on each type of bear’s preferred food source, which varies from region to region. For many years Russia allowed den bear hunting, but this was closed in 2012 (to the great disappointment of many thrill-seeking hunters). Our Eurasian Brown Bear hunt is conducted in the regions of St. Petersburg, Novgorod, Vologda, and Karelia. In the European part of the country, these bears usually feed on wild berries, cultivated oats and barley, insects, small mammals, and carrion. The largest European bear ever taken by one of our clients weighed in at 360 kg. (790 lbs.), with a hide measuring 260 cm long (almost 9 ft.). The success rate on our Eurasian brown bear hunts is well over 90%. The majority of Eurasian Brown bear hunts are conducted from high stands over bait. The spring hunting season lasts only a couple of weeks in late April and May, and we offer hunts over meat bait in Karelia from April 20-25 until May 20. The fall season usually starts on August 15 and ends around October 30. Early fall hunts are done from high stands along oat and barley fields. Later, bears are hunted by stalking or baiting. Both methods offer the hunter a truly thrilling experience, both on account of the environment in which the hunts take place and the opportunity to see these enormous and elegant creatures first hand and up close in their natural habitat. For a full-blooded (!), first-person account of what it feels like to hunt a European brown bear in fall, this article by Mark Hoffman, originally printed in Outdoor Edge, offers a small taster that’s sure to whet your appetite! The Siberian brown bear is, on average, larger than the Eurasian brown bear. The most important food source for the Siberian brown bear during the summer and fall is pine nuts, which they consume in huge quantities in order to accumulate enough fat to see them through their winter hibernation. When the crop of pine nuts is inadequate, hunger makes bears very aggressive. This is when they start killing not only wild but also domestic mammals and often attack people. Siberian Brown Bear hunts are available in both spring and fall. Spring hunts usually involve stalking and glassing over the hillsides. In the fall, bears are hunted by stalking and baiting, and occasionally with dogs. Sergei Shushunov Siberian brown bear hunt, Irkutsk The Far Eastern brown bear (also known as the Kamchatka brown bear) is found on the Kamchatka peninsula, Sakhalin island, and the shores of the Sea of Okhotsk, and is amongst the largest bears in Russia and perhaps even the world. These salmon-eating bears rival the bears of Alaska and Kodiak Island both in size and in density of population. (To give you an idea of what to expect, the largest Kamchatka brown bear skull on record was measured at 30 and 11/16 inches.) The prices of these Russian bear hunts are substantially lower than those in Alaska and the success rate is on average much higher owing to the density of the Far Eastern brown bear population where our hunts take place. Kamchatka has become the number one destination for bear hunters in Russia, although many hunters do not realize that the less frequently hunted areas of the Russian Northern Pacific Coast offer as good, or perhaps an even better chance of getting a very large bear. In May or June, for example, the density of bears along the shoreline of the Sea of Okhotsk can be so high that from a viewing point on a hill a hunter may be able to spot 30 to 50 bears at the same time. The spring season is the most productive for hunting the Far Eastern Brown Bear. At this time, bears emerge from hibernation and actively look for food while there is still snow cover on the ground, thereby making themselves visible from greater distances to hunters. The season starts at the end of April and ends at the end of May in the northern parts of Russia’s Pacific regions. Spring hunts in the southern parts of the Sea of Okhotsk start in late May and end in early June. The Amur brown bear is found in the southern parts of far eastern Russia. This bear has a darker than usual hide and is medium to large in size. It is considered to be similar to the bears found on Hokkaido Island in Japan. The hunt is offered along the southern Pacific coast of Russia in the spring and over bait in the fall. This is the only bear hunt which can be effectively done with bow and arrow. To see for yourself the type of trophies you can expect to take home from one of our hunts, please take a look at our trophy gallery, where you will find pictures of each of the above species and the happy clients who claimed them as their trophy!
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 12, 2019 19:55:11 GMT -5
Brown Bear Subspecies There are currently eight different subspecies of brown bear that are recognized by Safari Club International. Brown Bear Subspecies Brown bears are fascinating animals and one of my favorite big game species. There are currently eight different subspecies of brown bear that are recognized by Safari Club International. They can be found in the most remote parts of North America, Eastern Europe, Asia and Russia. Four different subspecies occur in Russia alone: Amur Brown Bear, Siberian Brown Bear, Kamchatka Brown Bear, and the Eurasian Brown Bear. Siberian Brown Bears range right between the Eurasian and Kamchatka Brown Bear in size. They have larger skulls and are more bold around people than some of the other brown bear varieties. Eurasian Brown Bears have a wide range of coloration from brown to blonde to reddish brown and even almost black. There have also been reported cases of albinism . They have round heads, small ears and wide skulls. Amur Brown Bears, also known as Ussuri Brown Bears, are hard to tell apart from the Kamchatka Brown Bear. They can be identified by their elongated skull, smaller forehead, and much darker color. Some call them the black grizzly. Kamchatka Brown Bears are the largest bears in Eurasia. With a much wider skull than the Alaska Peninsula Brown Bears, they can can grow nearly as large, from 7 feet- 9 feet in length. North American Brown Bear are also known as the grizzly bear. There are about 25,000 across Canada and the Northwest Territories; 30,000 in Alaska and about 1,500 in the lower 48. Kodiak Brown Bear is considered by many to be the largest subspecies of Brown Bear, They inhabit the islands of the Kodiak Archipelago. They are most active during the day and tend to go into hibernation in late October and leave their dens in early April. Alaska Peninsula Brown Bear are some of the biggest bears in the world. They can range from 750-1250 lbs and can reach over 10 ft. They rival even the Kodiak Brown Bear. They’ve reached weights up to 1,500 lbs. Sitka Brown Bear can be found in Southeast Alaska and Admiralty Island, Baranof Island and Chichagof Island (ABC Islands). They look a lot like the Alaskan Grizzly bear with a humped back and a nasty reputation. Each of these subspecies is unique in its own way. They are one of the most interesting, powerful, awe inspiring animals on earth. The more I learn about them the more fascinated I am by them. outdoors-international.com/brown-bear-subspecies/
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Post by brobear on Jan 13, 2019 6:49:19 GMT -5
Interesting find Kodiak - There are currently eight different subspecies of brown bear that are recognized by Safari Club International. ( 1 ) Siberian Brown Bear - Ursus arctos collaris. ( 2 ) Eurasian Brown Bear - Ursus arctos arctos. ( 3 ) Amur Brown Bear - Ursus arctos lasiotus. ( 4 ) Kamchatka Brown Bear - Ursus arctos beringianus. ( 5 ) North American Brown Bear - Ursus arctos horribilis ( grizzly ). ( 7 ) Kodiak Brown Bear - Ursus arctos middendorffi. ( 8 ) Alaska Peninsula Brown Bear - Ursus arctos ( gyas or horribilis )? ( 9 ) Sitka Brown Bear - Ursus arctos sitkensis. Each of these subspecies is unique in its own way. They are one of the most interesting, powerful, awe inspiring animals on earth. The more I learn about them the more fascinated I am by them. Note: I would assume that the Himalayan "red Bear", the Tibetan "blue bear", and the Gobi bear are all U.a.arctos?
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Post by King Kodiak on Jan 13, 2019 7:07:24 GMT -5
I would assume that the Himalayan "red Bear", the Tibetan "blue bear", and the Gobi bear are all U.a.arctos?
well you have to remember that this list are the brown bear subspecies recognized by the Safari club international, a hunting organization. We know that different bear biologists and different scientists dont agree on some of these subspecies. But yeah, those 3 should be Ursus arctos arctos.
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 27, 2019 21:26:41 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Mar 4, 2019 5:05:18 GMT -5
About American the grizzly. It would be so easy to have them divided into numerous subspecies, as they once were. Each population has its own unique look. Some are grizzled silver-tip bears, some with a yellow/brown, some more red, and even blonde grizzlies. The coastal brownies are huge and the barren ground variety are comparatively small. But they are all grizzlies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:01:02 GMT -5
We could name one of these brown bear Gengis Khan . Just having a laugh. The brown bears living in many parts of the world probably shows they have invaded places like Gengis Khan on a more serious note since barren ground grizzlies are invading polar bear territory.
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