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Post by brobear on Dec 23, 2022 7:08:23 GMT -5
Quote: "Actually Barren Ground Grizzlies are much bigger than Yellowstone Grizzlies." *No, the grizzlies of the Alaskan and Canadian tundra are some smaller than inland grizzlies living further south. Quote: "So, Grizzles are much more durable." *I also find this to be questionable. An adult grizzly is durable due to his tough skin, thick coat of hair, and a thick layer of both fat and muscle tissues, making it difficult for teeth or claws to reach vitals. It seems to me that a polar bear has these same advantages.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2022 15:51:40 GMT -5
Quote: "Actually Barren Ground Grizzlies are much bigger than Yellowstone Grizzlies." *No, the grizzlies of the Alaskan and Canadian tundra are some smaller than inland grizzlies living further south. Quote: "So, Grizzles are much more durable." *I also find this to be questionable. An adult grizzly is durable due to his tough skin, thick coat of hair, and a thick layer of both fat and muscle tissues, making it difficult for teeth or claws to reach vitals. It seems to me that a polar bear has these same advantages. Polar Bears get damaged by their own bites, while Grizzlies tank their own bites. And keep in mind, they have similar bite force. Also, bro, i just showed a Barren Ground Grizzly next to a Polar Bear. Here's another :-
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Post by brobear on Dec 23, 2022 17:13:31 GMT -5
Grizzly Bears on Ice www.nwf.org/en/Magazines/National-Wildlife/2006/Grizzly-Bears-on-Ice#:~:text=Known%20as%20%22barren%20ground%20grizzlies%2C%22%20the%20bears%20Derocher,northern%20Idaho%20and%20the%20North%20Cascades%20of%20Washington. Known as "barren ground grizzlies," the bears Derocher observed are the same species of grizzly that inhabits the Rockies in southern Canada, the interior and coastal regions of British Columbia and Alaska and, in the Lower 48, Montana, Wyoming, northern Idaho and the North Cascades of Washington. Here, at the northern edge of the species' range--where the bears roam from the North Slope of Alaska to the coast of Canada's Hudson Bay--grizzlies look almost identical to their southern kin, but are only about two-thirds their size. Physical distinctions are obvious: Polar bears are white rather than brown, which helps camouflage the predators from their prey on the sea ice. They are also generally larger, and have heads and bodies that are much more elongated, and therefore better adapted to penetrate seal lairs. Their larger, sharper teeth allow them to tear up seals efficiently, and shorter claws and larger feet make it easier for polar bears to travel on sea ice and swim across great expanses of water.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Dec 24, 2022 6:09:57 GMT -5
So far I haven't seen anything that suggests a grizzly killed an adult female polar bear; the two internet websites don't provide any sources, it is purely made-up, lol. Some time ago I did a lot of research on grizzly/polar bear interactions and only found accounts of cubs or subadults being snatched by much bigger grizzlies, a grizzly killing an adult polar bear has never been documented. Search deeper then. Grizzlies have DEFINITELY killed female Polar Bears. Also, why would they mention made-up things? No, they haven't. And when you look at simple internet websites, you'll see that a whole lot of things are made-up. Grizzlies have on rare occasions snatched juvenile polar bears but have never killed or even injured an adult polar bear to the slightest. I have a suggestion for you; you only seem to be interested in grizzly bears fighting polar bears from what I've seen. Research the interactions between the two for at least half a year before making conclusions. You are ill informed on the whole topic with claims like "grizzlies have killed female polar bears" or "Barren Ground grizzlies are much bigger than Yellowstone grizzlies".
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 24, 2022 7:19:23 GMT -5
In addition, polar bears seem to bleed more because of their translucent yellowish white fur making it much easier to see their blood after a fight.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 24, 2022 7:21:53 GMT -5
Grizzlies also wound each other during fights.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2022 14:05:49 GMT -5
Grizzlies also wound each other during fights. Very extreme force was implied. I saw a video with "just" high force, and Grizzlies appeared to be okay. And we have Polar Bears that apply little force, and yet they bleed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2022 14:10:13 GMT -5
Search deeper then. Grizzlies have DEFINITELY killed female Polar Bears. Also, why would they mention made-up things? No, they haven't. And when you look at simple internet websites, you'll see that a whole lot of things are made-up. Grizzlies have on rare occasions snatched juvenile polar bears but have never killed or even injured an adult polar bear to the slightest. I have a suggestion for you; you only seem to be interested in grizzly bears fighting polar bears from what I've seen. Research the interactions between the two for at least half a year before making conclusions. You are ill informed on the whole topic with claims like "grizzlies have killed female polar bears" or "Barren Ground grizzlies are much bigger than Yellowstone grizzlies". I searched up interactions between Grizzlies/Polar Bears before. I saw a video in TikTok of a guy claiming he had a recorded video of a Grizzly killing a female Polar Bear. And no, i actually find sharks VS bears more interesting than other animal fights. I'm a shark fan BTW.
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Post by brobear on Dec 24, 2022 14:37:06 GMT -5
Quote: "I saw a video in TikTok of a guy claiming he had a recorded video of a Grizzly killing a female Polar Bear." *I have watched videos of guys claiming to have seen BigFoot, ghosts, and even fairies. Show us some real evidence. Quote: "This isn't a fight, this is a slaughter, and Grizzly slams. There's barely anything the Polar Bear beats the Grizzly at. Polar Bears only have size/weight and bite force, but that's it. Grizzlies have better durability, longer claws, more muscular bodies." *That's an interesting opinion trashzone. Now, if you can back-up these claims with some actual data.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2022 14:43:42 GMT -5
*I have watched videos of guys claiming to have seen BigFoot, ghosts, and even fairies. Show us some real evidence. Good point. You got me there. But i think it's possible for large Grizzly populations to be pushed to Northarn Alaska and kill Polar Bears, mainly Coastal Grizzlies. But Kodiaks? Well i doubt that.
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Post by brobear on Dec 25, 2022 5:27:04 GMT -5
OK; here is my personal opinion which is not based on any scientific data; a 500-pound grizzly goes face-to-face with a 1200-pound polar bear, I believe that this unusually large barren ground grizzly would put-up a good fight for about a good solid minute. He would go in like an aggressive wolverine, which might momentarily startle the bigger polar bear. But, the polar bear kills for a living. He has a huge weight and strength advantage. As a grappler, he is the grizzly's equal. Both bears are equally durable. In the end, Andre the Giant beats the Rock. 1000-pound Alaskan peninsula brown bear vs 1200-pound polar bear; my dollar is on the brown bear. ___________________________________________________________________________________ What is a polar bear? He is the result of a group of brown bears wandering far north up into the arctic circle, where they discovered a new food source. Here, they learned to hunt seals on the ice flows. There were also walrus and the occasional beached whale. Even some of the smaller whale species were seen as prey. This group of brown bears adapted to this new harsh environment and a big change to their omnivore diet. They evolved, rather rapidly, into polar bears. Because of the multitude of physical and mental changes, biologists categorize the polar bear as being its own species. However, no brown bear family tree is complete without the polar bear.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2022 9:18:47 GMT -5
OK; here is my personal opinion which is not based on any scientific data; a 500-pound grizzly goes face-to-face with a 1200-pound polar bear, I believe that this unusually large barren ground grizzly would put-up a good fight for about a good solid minute. He would go in like an aggressive wolverine, which might momentarily startle the bigger polar bear. But, the polar bear kills for a living. He has a huge weight and strength advantage. As a grappler, he is the grizzly's equal. Both bears are equally durable. In the end, Andre the Giant beats the Rock. 1000-pound Alaskan peninsula brown bear vs 1200-pound polar bear; my dollar is on the brown bear. ___________________________________________________________________________________ What is a polar bear? He is the result of a group of brown bears wandering far north up into the arctic circle, where they discovered a new food source. Here, they learned to hunt seals on the ice flows. There were also walrus and the occasional beached whale. Even some of the smaller whale species were seen as prey. This group of brown bears adapted to this new harsh environment and a big change to their omnivore diet. They evolved, rather rapidly, into polar bears. Because of the multitude of physical and mental changes, biologists categorize the polar bear as being its own species. However, no brown bear family tree is complete without the polar bear. I don't think weight would matter much if you're built to kill things heavier than yourself.
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Post by brobear on Dec 25, 2022 21:48:08 GMT -5
Quote; "I don't think weight would matter much if you're built to kill things heavier than yourself." The polar bear has been known to kill bull walrus, Beluga whales, and Narwals.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Dec 25, 2022 22:24:43 GMT -5
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jan 16, 2023 21:38:51 GMT -5
Here we have the first documented case of an adult male polar bear successfully defending his kill from a grizzly bear: F) A polar bear successfully defending a marine mammal carcass from an approaching grizzly bear, Kiask Island, 2013 (photo: Robert Rockwell). Two observations were of grizzly bears feeding on subadult polar bears but in those cases neither observer could conclusively determine whether the grizzly bears had killed them, though the details of one case strongly suggested so. Grizzly bears are known to have killed and consumed polar bears on the sea ice in the western Arctic (Taylor, 1995) and typically dominate polar bears when they interact on shore in Alaska (Miller et al., 2015). These two observations contrast though with Rockwell’s 2013 observation of an adult male polar bear successfully deterring an approaching grizzly that appeared attracted to an unidentiable marine mammal carcass the polar bear was standing on (Fig. 2f). The State of Knowledge about Grizzly Bears (Kakenokuskwe osow Muskwa (Cree), Ursus arctos) in Northern Manitoba www.researchgate.net/publication/359235217_The_State_of_Knowledge_about_Grizzly_Bears_Kakenokuskwe_osow_Muskwa_Cree_Ursus_arctos_in_Northern_ManitobaFrom King Kodiak
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Post by brobear on Jan 17, 2023 3:18:32 GMT -5
I don't think that early observations were wrong. I believe that the newness is wearing off. The polar bears are becoming more familiar with the grizzlies and the fear of the unknown is fading.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 15, 2023 3:34:50 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Nov 17, 2023 2:10:16 GMT -5
How Grizzlies Evolved into Polar Bears www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/arctic-bears-how-grizzlies-evolved-into-polar-bears/777/ The icon of the Arctic, the polar bear, is the ultimate survivor in one of the harshest areas on Earth. Reigning over a world of ice, tundra, and snow, this carnivore would seem to have a lineage that traces back to some mammoth creature of the icy regions. But in fact, the polar bear’s closest ancestor is a land carnivore we associate more strongly with our forests. Over the years, scientists have uncovered an evolutionary path suggesting that polar bears are a relatively new species, and actually a subspecies, of Ursus arctos, more widely known as the brown bear. Scientific evidence has found that the brown bear, a species that also includes grizzly bears, was a “precursor” to polar bears, which then went on to develop specializations for inhabiting the harsh Arctic. Proving their genetic compatibility, brown bears and polar bears can mate and produce viable, or fertile, offspring. It is this reproductive viability that establishes that an animal belongs within a given species. In 2006, a hybrid grizzly/polar bear, which some call a “pizzly,” was discovered in the Canadian Arctic, providing researchers proof that polar bears and grizzly bears can interbreed, even in the wild. And when researchers in Alaska compared the DNA of brown bears from around the world, looking for genetic links, they made an interesting discovery about one population of brown bears in particular. Analysis of the DNA of a distinct population of brown bears living on Alaska’s ABC islands, 900 miles south of the nearest polar bear, revealed that the ABC bears were even more closely related to polar bears genetically than they were to other brown bears. So just when did polar bears arise as a separate subspecies? Genetic models show that the emergence of the polar bear could have taken place as recently as 70,000 years ago or as many as 1.5 million years ago. For many years, a fossil found at Kew Bridge in London was considered the oldest polar bear specimen. The fossil then placed the evolution around 70,000 years ago. But recently, scientists uncovered a fossilized jawbone from an island in the Arctic Ocean midway between Norway and the North Pole, dated to be at least 100,000 years old. Scientists believe this jawbone may represent the remains of the oldest-known polar bear, thus marking the appearance of the polar bear earlier than previously thought. Relying on the fossil record and DNA analysis, scientists have been able to arrive at a clearer picture of the polar bear’s evolutionary path over the millennia. Some 200,000 years ago, when glaciers covered much of Eurasia, the Arctic Ocean was completely frozen. It was during this challenging period that brown bears began to wander in search of food. Approximately 125,000 years ago a population of brown bears in the far north of their range was likely split off from their brown bear ancestors, perhaps because of competition for food. The population likely became isolated by massive glaciers and, while most died in the harsh environment, those bears with an evolutionary advantage — ideal coat color and thickness for extreme cold — survived and bred. Over thousands of years, this population of bears underwent further evolutionary change, adapting even more specialized traits for surviving the harsh polar environment. When life in the North demanded teeth better shaped for ripping apart seals than munching berries, the polar bear’s molar teeth changed significantly from those of the brown bear. The bears also grew white fur, which camouflaged them in their snow-covered surroundings and gave them a hunting advantage. Scientists believe that at first these bears scavenged seal carcasses that had washed ashore, and gradually began to hunt the seals by waiting at the water’s edge as the seals surfaced to breathe. This is believed to be an important step in the evolution of a new subspecies of bear — Ursus maritimus or the polar bear. ___________________________________________ Nature once exerted such extreme pressure on the brown bear that it eventually gave rise to a new, better-adapted subspecies, the polar bear. Now, once again, evolutionary forces are acting on this long-enduring species. As the Arctic warms, the polar bear’s unique specializations that once lent it an evolutionary edge, may now be the creature’s downfall. A changing climate may name a new king of the Arctic — the fierce and opportunistic brown bear.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Nov 18, 2023 3:22:05 GMT -5
/\ The only way the grizzlies will displace polar bears is by mating with the females (younger ones). I doubt they can do it with brute strength.
Older male bears prefer older females and younger males prefer younger females according to a source by Ursus Artos (the book named spirit bears?)
I am not surprise me that younger female polar bears will prefer the male barren ground grizzlies (adult) over six year old male polar bears that are sexually mature but not full grown.
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Post by brobear on Nov 18, 2023 7:09:44 GMT -5
Quote; /\ The only way the grizzlies will displace polar bears is by mating with the females (younger ones). I doubt they can do it with brute strength. *They're not talking about grizzlies fighting and defeating polar bears. They are saying that polar bears might not survive the natural climate changes that are taking place.
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