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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:01:48 GMT -5
European bison.  |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:10:11 GMT -5
Let's see if I got this right: The bison appears to be ( IMO ) a nearly full-grown sub-adult bull. The grizzly kills in his usual manner of biting into the backbone. In this case; it is also possible that the bear drowned the bison. The grizzly is relentless... |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:12:34 GMT -5
I would wager that more bison are killed by grizzlies than we know about. Casey Anderson said that grizzlies are more active at night than during the day. There is a lot of bear activity that is never seen. I have always figured that not every bison that bears are found feeding on are simply found carcasses of wolf-kills and bison that died of natural causes. Most; but not all. I still stand by this. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:14:52 GMT -5
About the video above on Reply #143. This is very similar to the old video of the Ussuri brown bear killing the big wild boar. In both videos the grizzly appears to be struggling to make the kill. The kill method being to bite into the spine on the animal's back. Evidently - without human interference - this method works for brown bears. His jaws are not designed like a big cat's for strangulation or suffocation. But he has the stamina necessary for his own unique methods. A fun fact. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:19:21 GMT -5
My Message: Consider the historical grizzly when there were huge herds of bison ( estimated from 50 to 100 million ) and an estimated population of grizzlies ( from 50 to 100 thousand ) south of the Canadian border. It is widely believed that these bears frequently followed the bison herds. Of course, they were mostly after wolf kills, bison weak from age etc, and calves. But there would have been interactions between full-grown bison and grizzlies; inevitably. WORLD'S RECORDS GRIZZLY BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 4/16 Greatest width of skull: 10 9/16 SCORE: 27 13/16 WORLD'S RECORDS ALASKA BROWN BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 15/16 Greatest width of skull: 12 13/16 SCORE: 30 12/16 This record grizzly skull ( inland grizzly ) was not killed by a hunter but was found by a hunter. It was a very rare discovery of a grizzly skull from the days when grizzlies followed the massive bison herds. Less than one inch difference in length from the *record Kodiak bear skull. Roughly two inches narrower in width. Consider that this is a discovery of a random bear - not likely the "biggest bear in the woods" - which would be a huge coincidence - and it is a Kodiak bear sized grizzly. The skull has a narrower shape. The grizzly populations which tend to be the most carnivorous tend to have narrow skulls. ( more polar bear-like ). The Big Grizzly of the Great Plains... |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:23:03 GMT -5
Posted by Gaurus: Bison v. Grizzly bear in Yellowstone The horribly mutilated carcass of a grizzly bear was found by a worker in the Yellowstone National Park. On the left side of its body, it had a puncture between its ribs one and a half inches in diameter. The torn up carcass and surrounding area suggested that the bear had died in a fight with another animal. Tracks, as well as hair around the carcass, indicated that the killer was a bison (buffalo).  Of course, against a bull bison, the grizzly is not always the victor. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:28:54 GMT -5
My Message: Consider the historical grizzly when there were huge herds of bison ( estimated from 50 to 100 million ) and an estimated population of grizzlies ( from 50 to 100 thousand ) south of the Canadian border. It is widely believed that these bears frequently followed the bison herds. Of course, they were mostly after wolf kills, bison weak from age etc, and calves. But there would have been interactions between full-grown bison and grizzlies; inevitably. WORLD'S RECORDS GRIZZLY BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 4/16 Greatest width of skull: 10 9/16 SCORE: 27 13/16 WORLD'S RECORDS ALASKA BROWN BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 15/16 Greatest width of skull: 12 13/16 SCORE: 30 12/16 This record grizzly skull ( inland grizzly ) was not killed by a hunter but was found by a hunter. It was a very rare discovery of a grizzly skull from the days when grizzlies followed the massive bison herds. Less than one inch difference in length from the *record Kodiak bear skull. Roughly two inches narrower in width. Consider that this is a discovery of a random bear - not likely the "biggest bear in the woods" - which would be a huge coincidence - and it is a Kodiak bear sized grizzly. The skull has a narrower shape. The grizzly populations which tend to be the most carnivorous tend to have narrow skulls. ( more polar bear-like ). The great bison hunters of the Great Plains... |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 2:45:43 GMT -5
Grizzly Years by Doug peacock. The Bitter Creek Grizzly was the only bear I knew of in Yellowstone that regularly killed moose and bison. He attacked younger animals - ambushed them from nearby timber, then dragged them back into the trees, sometimes covering the carcasses with dirt and sticks. I had seen this too many times to believe that these animals had all conveniently died during the winter. His was not the usual pattern of predation for grizzlies. In 1977, when I first crossed paths with the Bitter Creek Griz, a biologist had found another grizzly who had passed up many carcasses for live elk: The bear liked to kill what he ate. A few bears learn to kill healthy adult elk during all seasons, and cow-struck bulls during the rut were especially stupid and approachable. Yellowstone grizzlies also prey on elk calves, as they do caribou calves in Alaska, and moose calves in both places. Adult moose were generally a match for a grizzly except when snows were deep and lightly crusted: grizzlies can walk lightly over a thin crust, distributing their weight evenly on their plantigrade feet, and they glide over the top of deep drifts in which moose wallow. I thought that grizzly predation was not as common here as it had been a decade or more ago. The predatory segment of the population had probably been killed off selectively, and continues to be culled as they were born into it, because predatory bears are bolder and more visible. The Bitter Creek Griz was a holdover from the days when bears could afford to be bold and aggressive. Which served, as it always had, an important ecological function vital to survival of the species. Doug peacock probably knows the grizzly better than anyone... |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:09:21 GMT -5
About those outlaw grizzlies, the cattle and sheep killers of the American West. Notorious Grizzly Bears by W.P. Hubbard - 1960 - Pelage and Character - Weight. A safe estimate of the average weight of adult grizzlies in our western states would be about eight hundred and fifty pounds. This conclusion results from a careful check on grizzlies killed and weighed by numerous hunters, trappers, and old-time bear men. Nevertheless, there are exceptions. Several outlaw grizzlies investigated were known to have weighed over one thousand pounds. ( These outlaw grizzlies were hunted and killed before the Boone and Crockett Club established the idea of preserving bear skulls ). *When I had first read this several years ago, I considered this to be an exaggeration. But, that was then.
W.P. Hubbard was the leading expert on bears at that time. Consider that, after the mega-beast extinction at the end of the Pleistocene, the grizzlies of the N. American Great Plains became foragers and bison hunters. Then, during the 1600s, 1700s, and early 1800s, the grizzly was also hunting range cattle ( the ancestors of the Texas Longhorn ), mustang horses, and wild burros.
These grizzlies were feeding like royalty on lots of red meat. Beginning in the mid-1800s, the bison and feral cattle started disappearing, and were replaced by domesticated livestock. This is when the grizzly, following his nature, became, in the eyes of mankind, an outlaw. We all know the "rest of the story."
W.P. Hubbard was probably 'right-on-the-money' when he stated that the grizzly of the prairie averaged roughly 850 pounds. In every book I have read concerning the historic grizzly ( those that touched on the subject ) stated that the grizzlies of the open prairie were bigger that those of the Rocky Mountains and rivaled only by those of the West Coast.
It stands to reason, that a population of grizzlies with a very high percentage of red meat consumption would be very large bears.The Ussuri brown bear is the largest living inland brown bear living today. Only the salmon-eating coastal brown bears are bigger. However, back before the horrible slaughter of grizzly bears throughout North America down below the Canadian border, there were grizzly populations where the bears were bigger than their Russian brothers. The big beef-eaters of the American prairie, feeding on bison and cattle. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:12:02 GMT -5
Warsaw ( answering a fanboy ) said: Come on man. Do you think that scientist can "arrange a fight between these two animals for the entertainment of their guests."? Yes. I strongly believe that prime bull gaur,water buffalo (not to mention about rhinoceros)" It is more than a match for the tiger " I've always favored large bison over brown bear or even large bull moose in the face off scenario. I can say the same about large bull gaur & water buffalo or cape buffalo (in a good condition ) vs big cats . A bull bison in a face-off against any living predator is no joke.  |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:15:33 GMT -5
Taking a look at the size of the largest grizzly skull - found - from the "Old West Days" - those grizzly bears were near Kodiak bear size. WORLD'S RECORDS GRIZZLY BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 4/16 WORLD'S RECORDS ALASKA BROWN BEAR: Greatest length of skull without lower jaw: 17 15/16 This showdown was rare; but it did occasionally happen. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:39:48 GMT -5
Grizzly bear vs small bison Grizzly kills a yearling bison. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:42:03 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:55:34 GMT -5
HUGE is an understatement.  There are bison and there are BISON. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 3:59:38 GMT -5
( IMO ) the greatest rival to the bison might be the wild yak.  The brown bears encountered by the yak are among the smallest of brown bears. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 4:05:47 GMT -5
*Average historical grizzly of the American West: 850 pounds. The grizzlies of the Old West who followed the gargantuan herds of bison were much larger on average than the Rocky Mountain grizzlies of Wyoming and Montana. 850 pounds is roughly the size of an Alaskan peninsula brown bear. So, I believe that W.P. Hubbard was over estimating. However, every book I have read about the historical grizzlies of the old West, which touched on this subject, stated that the grizzlies of the prairie were larger than those of the Rocky Mountains. I'm thinking likely about the size of the Ussuri brown bears but perhaps with some exceptionally large individuals. Remember, these bears fed heavily on bison, mustangs, and range cattle. In later years ( after the great extermination ) on livestock. Truth... |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 4:09:02 GMT -5
About those European bison killed by brown bears: smz.waw.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/P166.pdf Found by Warsaw: "...The paper presents eight cases of bison death caused by attack of bears or wolyes, which took place in 2006-2012 in the Bieszczady Forest diyisions: Baligrod, Cisna, Lesko and Lutowiska. It was noticed that bison adapt to the preyailing conditions in mountains. The attacks of wolyes related to juyeniles, and the method of hunting is typical: the pack is using field handicaps. Bear attacks are relatively numerous and does not depend on the age of prey. On the basis of post mortem section is clear that predation is not directed to individuals seriously ill or debilitated what showed the lack of selective nature of predation..." Brown bears do not seek out week, elderly, sick, or wounded prey. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 4:11:49 GMT -5
We have some accounts of European brown bears hunting adult male European bison, but obviously they mostly hunt subadults and females as this study shows: (the European bison (Bison bonasus) was based on 1 study/event though).
A meta-analysis of ungulate predation and prey selection by the brown bear Ursus arctos in Eurasia
Abstract
At the biogeographic scale, spatial variation in diets may reflect not only the ecological flexibility of carnivore feeding habits, but also evolutionary adaptations of different populations within a species. We described the large-scale pattern in brown bear Ursus arctos predation on ungulates, its selectivity for ungulate species, and its relative role in ungulate mortality. We collated data from 63 studies in Europe and Asia and analyzed them in relation to annual temperature. Ungulate meat makes up, on average, 8.7% of brown bear diets, with European bears feeding on ungulates more (mean 10.5%) than Asiatic bears (6.8%). In Europe (but not in Asia), the percentage share of ungulates in bear diet was negatively related to the mean annual temperature. Northern populations of Asian bears consumed less ungulate meat than the respective populations in Europe, because of the widespread occurrence of Siberian pine Pinus sibirica and dwarf Siberian pine Pinus pumila, which produce relatively large, protein-rich seeds. In both continents, ungulates peak in the diet of bears in spring. Brown bears’ preference for 10 species of ungulates increased with body mass of prey. The bear significantly preferred preying upon moose Alces alces throughout its range. Bears were the most important predator of moose and caused, on average, 23% of total natural mortality in moose populations. Brown bear preference for moose and its dominant role in moose mortality suggest an evolutionary predator–prey relationship between these two species. Brown bears illustrate that even an apparently omnivorous predator can prefer one prey species.
 Table 2 Prey preferences of brown bears in Eurasia calculated by Jacobs’index D(see BMethods^which varies from −1 (complete avoidance of a species),to 0 (random utilization), to 1(the strongest positive selection). Body mass of ungulate species (in kilograms) is based on ¾ of adult female body mass to account for young and juveniles preyed upon following earlier prey preference studies (Hayward 2006; Hayward et al. 2006a,b,c). Roe deer includes both Capreolus capreolus and C. sibirica Full study here:
www.researchgate.net/publication/327783044_A_meta-analysis_of_ungulate_predation_and_prey_selection_by_the_brown_bear_Ursus_arctos_in_Eurasia#pf8 A good find by Pablo. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 4:13:46 GMT -5
295 kilograms is equal to 650.36 pounds. Prey preference of European brown bear. Makes sense. Why push your luck for a meal? The study that Warsaw contributed states that neither age nor health condition of the bison matters. What we have learned within just the last couple of months; Eurasian bears hunt and kill bison. European bison: 424 to 633 kg ( 935 to 1,396 lb ) in weight for females and 615 to 920 kg ( 1,356 to 2,028 lb ) in weight for males. So; a 650-pound bison would be a sub-adult.  ...a few facts. |
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Post by brobear on Oct 23, 2023 4:16:02 GMT -5
Yes, its obvious and we didn't need to see a study to know that subadults and females are mostly targeted. Every predator does the same, no one targets the adult males. Anyhow, we do have an account of a Carpathian brown bear killing 2 bull bisons of 8 and 11 years old in Poland.
....more facts. |
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