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Post by brobear on Sept 2, 2023 13:53:58 GMT -5
The Eastern American Black Bear vs Amur Tiger.   |
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 3, 2023 1:21:09 GMT -5
Interesting matchup. The black bear will definately be weaker than a brown bear of similar weight. In Pensylvannia, 500 to 600 pound male black bears are not uncommon.
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Post by Ransik on Sept 3, 2023 2:50:40 GMT -5
American black bear takes this one due the greater weight advantage over the tiger.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 3, 2023 2:57:42 GMT -5
Back to who wins more often, I believe the Amur tiger will chase off the black bear more often than not. A huge male blackie of exceptional weight might prove to be a challenge.
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Post by brobear on Sept 3, 2023 5:40:54 GMT -5
American black bear takes this one due the greater weight advantage over the tiger. Quote; "The black bear will definately be weaker than a brown bear of similar weight." Although not as strong as a brown bear of similar weight, this black bear would still have (imo) a significant strength advantage over a typical Amur tiger. In a face-to-face fight, I would wager on the bear. In reality, the tiger would backdown from a face-to-face confrontation.  |
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Post by Ransik on Sept 3, 2023 6:23:25 GMT -5
American black bear takes this one due the greater weight advantage over the tiger. Quote; "The black bear will definately be weaker than a brown bear of similar weight." Although not as strong as a brown bear of similar weight, this black bear would still have (imo) a significant strength advantage over a typical Amur tiger. In a face-to-face fight, I would wager on the bear. In reality, the tiger would backdown from a face-to-face confrontation. Yeah pretty strong still and can demolish a car. Can a tiger do it? www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/2018/09/06/gatlinburg-bear-demolishes-inside-unlocked-pickup-truck/1216649002/ |
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Sept 3, 2023 7:07:17 GMT -5
/\ The black bear seems to have more developed shoulder muscles and is a plantigrade giving them greater brute strength pound to pound that is why. I have never seen a tiger demolish a car like that but they have killed ungulates heavier than a male black bear. Remember tigers are one of the most efficient killers  . They have also killed female Ussuri brown bears which are larger than most male black bears. |
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Post by Ransik on Sept 3, 2023 7:16:10 GMT -5
Demolishing a vehicle is more impressive than killing an ungulate by throat bite it requires more brute force the bear wouldn't stand there letting the tiger to kill it. Bears are born wrestlers too.
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Post by brobear on Sept 3, 2023 11:09:46 GMT -5
Quote; "They have also killed female Ussuri brown bears which are larger than most male black bears."
Yes; they sometimes kill a brown she-bear which weighs less than the ambushing tiger. But this fight is face-to-face against a 600-pound (272 kg) male bear. Double the weight of a typical sloth bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 3, 2023 11:11:09 GMT -5
Demolishing a vehicle is more impressive than killing an ungulate by throat bite it requires more brute force the bear wouldn't stand there letting the tiger to kill it. Bears are born wrestlers too. True. I've never heard of a tiger ever ripping open a car door. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 3, 2023 11:19:08 GMT -5
brobearSo what's the weight of the Amur tiger for this match up?
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Post by brobear on Sept 3, 2023 12:53:36 GMT -5
brobear So what's the weight of the Amur tiger for this match up? Average mature Amur tiger (general) - 430 pounds. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 3, 2023 15:50:17 GMT -5
Weight:
The black bear is 600 lbs, the Amur tiger is 430 lbs. The bear would be around 40% heavier, that is a large weight advantage to beggin with.
Grappling ability:
Bears are natural wrestlers, in the grappling ability study, even though tigers were not included, all bears outscored all felids by a large margin.
Robusticity:
ML-diameters of all four major limb bones
American Black Bear - 35.60%
Tiger - 34.35%
Bite force:
BFQ at the canine tips
Tiger - 130.4
American Black Bear - 77.2
Humeri robusticity:
Black bear: 0.343
Siberian tiger: 0.323
-Bears are plantigrade giving them a striking and pushing advantage.
-BEARS HAVE STIFFER (STRONGER) BACKS THAN FELIDS WHICH SERVES TO BETTER STABILIZE THE TRUNK. BEARS ALSO HAVE MORE ENDURANCE THAN FELIDS.
-bears are more intelligent
ADVANTAGES:
BLACK BEAR
-weight
-grappling
-more robust limb bones
-more robust humeri
-plantigrade
-stronger backs
-more endurance
-more intelligent
-stronger
AMUR TIGER
-more bite force
-faster
-more agile
-more aggressive
At these weights, the black bear has just to many advantages, it would still be a very tough and even fight, so i would say the black bear takes it 6/7 out of 10 fights.
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2023 2:01:51 GMT -5
brobear So what's the weight of the Amur tiger for this match up? Average mature Amur tiger (general) - 430 pounds. A 600 pound Eastern black bear is not average, but neither is it a record size. Some have been weighed at over 800 pounds. The heaviest confirmed weight of a tiger is just under 600 pounds. So... I would guesstimate that a 500 pound tiger would be about right for a fair fight against a 600 pound Eastern black bear. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 4, 2023 5:45:58 GMT -5
Average vs average, even in a face to face fight, if both animals were forced to fight to the death, i see the Amur tiger winning more often than not.
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2023 7:23:43 GMT -5
Average vs average, even in a face to face fight, if both animals were forced to fight to the death, i see the Amur tiger winning more often than not. That all depends on - what is the weight of the average full-grown male Eastern black bear? His size range, I'm sure, is greater than the tiger's. _____________________________________ Eastern black bear - domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/707/eastern-black-bear?page=2 Reply #24 - Description: A medium-sized bear but one of the largest subspecies of U. americanus. Up to around two metres in length. Adult males usually weigh around 200 kg and females around 120 kg. Pelage is almost always black with a tan muzzle. 200 kilograms is equal to 440.92 pounds. / Average mature Amur tiger (general) - 430 pounds. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 4, 2023 7:36:57 GMT -5
Average vs average, even in a face to face fight, if both animals were forced to fight to the death, i see the Amur tiger winning more often than not. That all depends on - what is the weight of the average full-grown male Eastern black bear? His size range, I'm sure, is greater than the tiger's.
Reply #1:
beargorillarealm.proboards.com/post/742/thread
I doubt the average as a whole for this subspecies surpasses 400 lbs, but even if the black bear is a bit heavier than the tiger, i would still favor the tiger in a head on fight. The black bear would need at least an 100 lbs advantage for me to favor it.
I dont really have much faith in black bears. |
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2023 9:13:22 GMT -5
The record Eastern black bears are from North Carolina, but possibly Penn has a larger average? Anyway, no "average weight" is ever truly accurate. But, seeing as how the Eastern black bear is the largest subspecies holding the record-sized bears, heavier than Yellowstone grizzlies, I don't find 440 pounds to be unrealistic. Unless there are numerous Eastern black bear populations with small specimens. Point being; you might be right because I don't know. What I would like to see is an actual study, but black bears are usually simply grouped as a whole - containing all subspecies - even in biological studies. *I will edit and add this; according to the evidence of the tiger's past history of hunting bears, to defeat the full-grown male bear, the tiger needs to have the weight advantage. |
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Post by King Kodiak on Sept 4, 2023 10:22:48 GMT -5
That's correct, Penn has a larger average. Penn-402 lbs, North Carolina-368 lbs.
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Post by brobear on Sept 4, 2023 11:29:37 GMT -5
This chart gives me an average for adult males at: 283 pounds; but this is simply black bears in general. Tiger probably wins this one due to size. |
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. They have also killed female Ussuri brown bears which are larger than most male black bears.
