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Post by kesagake on Apr 12, 2021 11:36:39 GMT -5
Some dudes say jaguar can kill a polar bear and brown bear, what do you guys think?
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Post by brobear on Apr 12, 2021 11:39:59 GMT -5
Some dudes say jaguar can kill a polar bear and brown bear, what do you guys think? Some dudes live in a fantasy world all their own.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Apr 16, 2021 0:59:29 GMT -5
Some dudes say jaguar can kill a polar bear and brown bear, what do you guys think? The jaguar might be able to kill a small female brown bear (maybe a Himalayan brown bear/red bear) close to its weight but other than that, it is a total mismatch.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 16, 2021 3:36:51 GMT -5
Andean bear is the king of andean mountains. No other animal challenges the king of andean mountains.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 16, 2021 4:19:18 GMT -5
Andean bear is also one of the most underrated animals. Really. When people talk about the 'king of latin america' so they only say Jaguar and forget the bear and the anaconda. However, i say that
In siberia, there are three kings Ussuri brown bear, Siberian tiger and Wild boar but the emperor is the "Ussuri grizzly."
Same i say that there are three kings in South America, Spectacled bear, Jaguar and Anaconda but the emperor is the "Andean bear."
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Post by kesagake on Apr 16, 2021 4:24:52 GMT -5
Andean bear is the king of andean mountains. No other animal challenges the king of andean mountains. Watch out for cat enthusiasts
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Post by brobear on Apr 16, 2021 4:27:53 GMT -5
Andean bear is also one of the most underrated animals. Really. When people talk about the 'king of latin america' so they only say Jaguar and forget the bear and the anaconda. However, i say that In siberia, there are three kings Ussuri brown bear, Siberian tiger and Wild boar but the emperor is the "Ussuri grizzly." Same i say that there are three kings in South America, Spectacled bear, Jaguar and Anaconda but the emperor is the "Andean bear." Seriously, less is known about the elusive Andean bear than any other living bear species. We do know that he is nearly as vegetarian as the giant panda ( his closest living relative ) and that he is as arboreal as the sun bear. As for being a fighter, we have nothing to go on except for the fact that - he is a bear. OH; and I would add black caiman to that list.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 16, 2021 4:29:48 GMT -5
Scientists should intensely focus on sun bears and andean bears. I love andean bears because they are the only bears in south america.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 16, 2021 4:31:02 GMT -5
Andean bear is also one of the most underrated animals. Really. When people talk about the 'king of latin america' so they only say Jaguar and forget the bear and the anaconda. However, i say that In siberia, there are three kings Ussuri brown bear, Siberian tiger and Wild boar but the emperor is the "Ussuri grizzly." Same i say that there are three kings in South America, Spectacled bear, Jaguar and Anaconda but the emperor is the "Andean bear." Seriously, less is known about the elusive Andean bear than any other living bear species. We do know that he is nearly as vegetarian as the giant panda ( his closest living relative ) and that he is as arboreal as the sun bear. As for being a fighter, we have nothing to go on except for the fact that - he is a bear. OH; and I would add black caiman to that list. Problem with black caimann is that it is small and remains on land more than in water compared to other crocodiles which makes it vulnerable to jaguar.
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Post by brobear on Apr 16, 2021 4:49:41 GMT -5
Alligators: The black caiman is the biggest member of the alligator family. I have spent many years in Florida and S.Georgia. I have seen some huge alligators. So, ( IMO ), the jaguar chooses carefully the caiman that he attacks.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 16, 2021 23:30:23 GMT -5
So due to size, jaguar only preys on small caimans on land. A fully-grown caiman in water is strictly avoid. Right?
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Post by brobear on Apr 17, 2021 3:14:07 GMT -5
So due to size, jaguar only preys on small caimans on land. A fully-grown caiman in water is strictly avoid. Right? latinrootstravel.com/fortheblog/black-caiman-facts/ 1. Black caimans are big animals Black caimans are huge! They are the biggest in the caiman family, they reach up to 17 feet long, with females being slightly smaller than males and being about 10 feet long. Typically, they weigh around 800 lbs, but can get as big as 1000 lbs! 4. They’re at the top of the food chain Black caimans have no real predators in their native home. They are the apex. Even big cats, like jaguars and cougars, will avoid the lakes and swamps the black caimans call home. Occasionally though, these kings do get overpowered. Some jaguars have taken them down, and giant river otter families have also killed caimans. Now, these otters must have a lot at stake to take on an animal like this! ( IMO ) the jaguar will never choose to ambush a caiman weighing above perhaps 300-pounds.
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Post by brobear on Apr 17, 2021 3:18:53 GMT -5
Predators of Andean Bears - If an Andean bear were to venture into a river with black caimans, then the bear is putting himself in harm's way. ( IMO ) if a big male jaguar were to ambush an Andean bear, the big cat would probably make a quick kill. But, there remains no evidence that they ever risk it.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 17, 2021 4:26:17 GMT -5
So due to size, jaguar only preys on small caimans on land. A fully-grown caiman in water is strictly avoid. Right? latinrootstravel.com/fortheblog/black-caiman-facts/ 1. Black caimans are big animals Black caimans are huge! They are the biggest in the caiman family, they reach up to 17 feet long, with females being slightly smaller than males and being about 10 feet long. Typically, they weigh around 800 lbs, but can get as big as 1000 lbs! 4. They’re at the top of the food chain Black caimans have no real predators in their native home. They are the apex. Even big cats, like jaguars and cougars, will avoid the lakes and swamps the black caimans call home. Occasionally though, these kings do get overpowered. Some jaguars have taken them down, and giant river otter families have also killed caimans. Now, these otters must have a lot at stake to take on an animal like this! ( IMO ) the jaguar will never choose to ambush a caiman weighing above perhaps 300-pounds. Thanks brobear. You took me out of the misconception that big caiman is out of jaguar predation even on land. I knew this before but not in detail and had little doubts which are now clear.🙂
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Post by brobear on Apr 19, 2022 2:31:59 GMT -5
This is about the only (possible) interaction I have found between the two: "The most secretive bear we have had at Chaparri who would often not be seen for days at a time. She arrived in 2001 from a circus that arrived in the village of Chongoyape and was believed to have originated from the Chachapoyas region. She escaped undetected from the enclosure during the wet season of 2006 when the vegetation is very dense and she was being seen only occasionally and was found dead outside the enclosure - the exact cause of death is not known but she appears to have been killed by a Puma." www.chaparri.org/en/andean-bear-rescue-centre.phpcarnivora.net/showthread.php?tid=6794Credited to Taipan. Did a cougar ambush and kill an adult female Andean bear? Maybe. First of all, this bear's age is not mentioned, although from 2001 to 2006 shows she had to be near 5 years old in the least. The vegetation was very dense; perfect for an ambush. I find this very believable. This would make two she-bears killed by a cougar - one American black bear in Montana and this Andean bear. Female Andean bears rarely grow heavier than 180 pounds (81 kilograms). Only one adult bear has ever been confirmed killed by a jaguar. That was also a female American black bear.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 0:19:16 GMT -5
The Impacts of Jaguars and Andean Bears in Latin America A comparison of two of Latin America's threatened mammals Emily Heller - December 8, 2021 storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/7fa6d45009ac45eabf994b8d142a50ca The Andean bear (or often referred to as the spectacled bear) and the jaguar are organisms that may seem like they run in the same circles, but they do not. They merely share similar habitat regions in Central and South America. Andean bears commonly prefer high-altitude, mountainous zones where jaguars generally prefer lower elevations near the Amazon River. However, they share the ability to impact their respective environments positively. While these Latin American carnivores have these differences, they have common obstacles in their lives that have placed them in less-than-desirable IUCN Red List Statuses (the list is the "most comprehensive, objective goal approach for evaluating the conservation status of plant and animal species" (National Geographic, n.d.). The spectacled bear is listed as Vulnerable (Velez-Liendo & Garcia-Rangel, 2017) and the jaguar is listed as Near Threatened. This story map will evaluate the differences as well as detail the similarities of how these animals impact the region. (map can be seen on site) Introduction to the Jaguar: Jaguars are a powerful symbol of ferocity and grace in Latin America. Many Indigenous groups throughout the region have regarded jaguars as godlike (UNEP, 2018). There have been a multitude of artifacts from pre-Colombian societies, consisting of art that depict the jaguar across the jaguar's historical range (National Geographic, n.d.). The historical range of the jaguar reached up into the Southwest US and in more southern points of South America (2018). Several Indigenous groups have different myths about the supernatural abilities and power of the jaguar. The Tembé tribe of northwestern Brazil possesses such a myth that illustrates the invulnerable powers of the jaguar. It goes like this: A hunter approached a group of jaguars in an attempt to kill them. However, the jaguars "raised a storm that shook a tree, bringing down the hide-out and its occupant [the hunter], who was killed instantly" (Musilli, 1987). The same tribe also believed long ago that this species bestowed upon them the gift of honey. Other tribes believe that the jaguar gave them the gift of tobacco. Tobacco supposedly gave shamans the means necessary to enter a supernatural realm. The Amazonian Barasana people believed at one time that the jaguar gave them the gift of pepper. In the northwest of the Amazon, it is even said that the jaguar is "the closest counterpart to men in many ways" (1987). All myths aside, jaguars are solitary and territorial creatures apart from mating. They dwell in tropical rainforest, grassland, and savanna biomes. On average, panthera onca weighs up to 100-250 pounds and they typically live to be 12-15 in the wild (National Geographic, n.d.). Jaguars are a key component in their environment as they are a top predator. As they are carnivores with a strong bite, they eat virtually any kind of animal. They serve as population control to a certain extent. While jaguars have a history of being revered for their magical abilities and fierce disposition, they are among one of the victims being threatened by wildlife trafficking as well as habitat fragmentation. Many people of Latin America are aware of these growing tragedies that not only affect the welfare of the jaguar, but the welfare of the ecosystem and environments in the region. While the region has more protected lands than any other on Earth, more effort is necessary to stabilize the jaguar population (2018).
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 0:21:22 GMT -5
continued: Introduction to the Andean Bear: If you dare, you can find these spectacled bears in the South American countries of Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, and Venezuela (Berton, 2021). They frequent areas with plenty of trees to climb, as they are excellent climbers. As noted in the above Andean Bear Occupancy Map, they are found most often in cloud forests in their namesake: the Andes Mountains. While living up in the mountaintops, they will descend to obtain nutrition. Despite being classified as carnivores as they do need meat in their diet to survive, they eat mostly vegetarian foods. Due to an increasing amount of habitat fragmentation, the bears have to redirect their appetites to new entrees, such as livestock, and this is where the bears get into even more danger when owners of the livestock retaliate violently (National Geographic, n.d.).
According to the IUCN, about 30% of habitat is not suitable for sustaining the lives of spectacled bear populations (Velez-Liendo & Garcia-Rangel, 2017). A potential cause for this unsuitability is the push for the normally-solitary creatures to retreat to unsafe places for food and shelter, similar to the thousands of Latin American human citizens that are being displaced at the same time. Due to the Vulnerable status of Latin America's only living bear, a plethora of ecosystems are threatened to diminish along with the species. The Rainforest Alliance has reported that the bear is a key pollinator that helps plant three important types of trees in their habitat. They tend to carry pollen in their thick, dense fur when they eat fruit, orchid bulbs, and bromeliads (Berton, 2019 & Inkaterra Association, n.d.).
Jaguars are not the only animal with representation in Indigenous culture. Symbolic representation of the Andean bear can be found in Incan mythology. A tale of bears is modernly interpreted as a plight story against the Hispanic conquests of Latin America, in which the Inca people in the story cannot be rid of 'bear half-humans' or Hispanic conquistadors (Allen & Steele, 2004).
The spectacled bear lives up to be about 25 years old in the wild (Rainforest Alliance, n.d.). On average, mature males weigh 220-340 pounds, and females weigh less than or about the same as 180 pounds. Generally, the bears can be 5-6 feet tall (National Geographic, n.d.).
Something that both jaguars and Andean bears share is their incredible jaw strength. They are very strong carnivores that are killing livestock as deforestation and habitat fragmentation continues. Unfortunately, though, retaliation from angered farmers is not the only thing these animals need to worry about.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 0:23:19 GMT -5
continued: The Declining Populations of Jaguars & Andean Bears: South and Central American countries are facing high rates of deforestation, and both animals are facing the consequences. Habitat fragmentation occurs when traditional habitats of a species is broken apart. The respective animals of a species get trapped into small areas of forest and don't venture far from those areas to find new mates, which unfortunately leads to cases of inbreeding and local extinctions (National Geographic, n.d.).
Factors that have contributed to habitat fragmentation of jaguars and spectacled bears include urban and agricultural expansion as well as organized crime, unsustainable agricultural practices, conversion of land to cocoa and the drug trade, and oil and mining over-indulgences (UNEP 2018; Velez-Liendo & Garcia-Rangel, 2017).
The Central American country of Panama was once abundant with tropical forests, as well as a key place that maintained genetic diversity among jaguar populations. Unfortunately, Panama's urban and industrial developments worked as an obstacle between North and South jaguar populations (UNEP, 2018).
UNEP (2018) gives a disappointing statistic that in over the span of 20 years, jaguar populations have decreased by 25%. UNEP (2018) also reports that since 1989, an approximate amount of 360 jaguars have been murdered by the hands of vengeful Panamanian farmers. Pre-Colombian cultures used the body parts of jaguars and spectacled bears for medicinal use, and these practices are still in place today. There are also broader markets for the respective animals' body parts as far away as Asia. Though illegal, these practices are more common than one may believe. The UNEP (2018) once again reports that the body parts of jaguars such as the genitals and the fangs are increasing in demand on the Asian black market. This is referred to "the silent death of the jaguar" by a research associate of the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, Ricardo Moreno. Almost all small markets managed by Chinese citizens in the Darien Rainforest Panamanian communities offer feline fat. It is also important to note that poachers tend to take advantage of Bolivian citizens that suffer with poverty. The poachers offer money in exchange for jaguar cadavers via public advertisement (2018).
A medicinal drink called Seven Roots is sold in markets in South America. Referring back to the Introductory section for Andean bears, Inca legend has perpetuated that their body parts are useful in medicinal practices, similarly to jaguars. The key ingredient in Seven Roots is the penis bone of a spectacled bear. Peruvians call this bone vinzas. Shamans will also put the whole bones of the bear in the drink to "possess the animal's strength" (Berton, 2019). Berton, the writer of the National Geographic article "Poaching threatens South America's only bear species," interviews a medicine shopkeeper in Peru, in which it is revealed that the shopkeeper has different values that take precedence over the bear's welfare: "It's money! We win. Hunters also win. With that money, they buy rice, oil, and sugar" (2019). Despite any scientific evidence to back up the claims of the medicines using the animals' body parts, "bear butter" or bear fat is allegedly used to treat muscle pain, broken bones, paralysis, or colds. Because these practices are indeed illegal, shopkeepers that offer these products put on false labels in an attempt to distract authorities (2019). Berton's article (2019) also points out the fact that finding wildlife trafficking is difficult since the practice is so 'under-the-table.' The Peru justice ministry reports that there has been no Andean bear wildlife cases out of 619 wildlife crime cases. Not only that, but the institutions that have put anti-wildlife trafficking laws in place do not have the necessary equipment to transport the animals they confiscate. Turnover rates are high in enforcement staff as well.
The wildlife trafficking problem is just as detrimental to Latin American sustainability as well as habitat fragmentation and deforestation. All of these tragic situations have victimized spectacled bears and jaguars to an obscene amount. It seems that there may be hope to obliterate these societal grievances.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 0:26:00 GMT -5
continued: Preservation Goals: According to Sam Shanee, Neotropical Primate Conservation charity director, the wildlife trafficking problem is the most serious in Peru (Berton, 2019). Even though the fines for hunting, storing, and collecting as well as offering the sale of products of wildlife have increased from $180 to $1500 in Peru (2019), the perpetrators are still able to secretly continue their businesses without interferences from authorities.
There is indeed hope. For example, Bolivian biologist and principal researcher Ximena Velez-Liendo is leading a project focusing on the welfare of Andean bears. She is hoping to decrease the amount of bears consuming livestock while also keeping the locals happy and content with the bears (Shaw, 2017). She won the Whitley Award that will help fund her project further. In practice, the project generates the first population estimation for Andean bears in Bolivia while using safe camera traps and quantifying human-bear conflicts (The Guardian, 2017).
Velez-Liendo is not the only one working with 'trap-camera stations' to find a new solution to farming-and-predator situations. Mexico is highly invested in the jaguar's preservation. Because of the country's full support, the jaguar population in the country has doubled since 2002. The UNEP (2018) reports that there are currently over 4,000 jaguars in Mexico. The Yaguara Foundation and the Panamanian Ministry of the Environment are working together to educate farmers on the importance of jaguars and have placed about 500 stations in jungles along with a new communication system in place for farmers to request official assistance before taking matters into their own hands against the jaguar. There is also an increasing amount of projects that work to give compensation to ranchers and farmers after loss of livestock so there is an incentive not to retaliate (National Geographic, n.d.).
The Yucatan Peninsula is home to many jaguar populations, so in 1998, the Calakmul Biosphere Reserve was established. The Reserve is considered to be one of the more successful ventures of jaguar preservation (UNEP, 2018). Jaguar corridors are being created to reconnect once-separated jaguar populations to encourage genetic diversity (National Geographic, n.d.). Ignacu National Park in Brazin and Gran Chaco in Paraguay are projects in the Amazon River Basin (where jaguars are the most abundant) that are successfully benefiting jaguar populations. Now, Andean bears are facing some trickier circumstances as compared to jaguar conservation. Peru has been advised to have more judges specializing in environmental matters (Berton, 2019). The Inkaterra Andean Bear Sanctuary in Machu Picchu, Peru was established in 2001. The goals of the sanctuary are to rehabilitate and study spectacled bears that were found in inadequate captivity conditions.
In 2014, the Denuncia Fauna project was born. The project allows civilians to anonymously provide the Neotropical Primate Conservation with wildlife trafficking tips and to alert relevant authorities (2019). National Geographic (n.d.) and Berton's article (2019) are two sources that agree that working against deforestation may be the most important aspect in preservation of these two threatened species. Antonio de la Torre from the Ecology Institute states: "Successful projects combine scientific research, environmental management measures and public policies, with a long-term vision; but above all, they require participation of local communities" (UNEP, 2018). Both animals, the jaguar and the spectacled bear, deserve protection and an increase in awareness of the cause of their population demises that are more similar than many may realize.
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Post by brobear on Sept 20, 2022 0:33:32 GMT -5
Plundering Eden, Part Three: Andean Bears and Jaguars www.britannica.com/explore/savingearth/plundering-eden-part-three-andean-bears-and-jaguars Overview: Throughout South America’s biologically rich terrains, trappers illegally hunt some of the continent’s most iconic mammals to fulfill local demands and supply commercial merchandise to an illicit global economy. Local markets thrive on traditional beliefs that animal body parts like gallbladders, claws, bones, and teeth are essential for traditions, witchcraft, products, adornment, and food. Wildlife is frequently targeted for the local pet trade as well. Local markets may seem innocuous, yet unsustainable uses of wildlife can lead directly to extinction in some cases, creating a trophic cascade (dramatic changes to an ecosystem caused by the removal of top predators) that can affect the health of the environment and the livelihoods of the people. Poaching for subsistence or the local pet trade can be as devastating to wild populations as the international black market. In fact, hunters in a remote Kichwa community in Ecuador where sustainable hunting may be the norm can also now participate in the global black market. Through digital connections and existing and emerging criminal networks on the ground in South America, local markets are propelled into the clandestine world of international animal trafficking. The International Institute for Environment and Development published a briefing paper in February 2014 that compels readers to decide whether sustainable uses of wildlife are congruent with conservation. Well, what can a society do when faced with internal and external pressures that result in illegal poaching? Can science and community-based management be effective when laws are failing to protect species? The conservation status and search for solutions for two iconic South American species, Andean bears and jaguars, offer some valuable insight into this discourse and illuminate the effects that illegal poaching and trafficking have on the diverse fauna of South America. *Note: Details on site provided.
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