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Post by brobear on Jan 25, 2018 2:03:20 GMT -5
Epiphany: A crocodilian ( crocodile, alligator, or caiman ) has a stronger bite-force than any big cat. Yet both tigers and jaguars are famous for killing these powerful reptiles. both the lion and the tiger have a stronger bite-force than any living bear. Yet, one-on-one. the grizzly has been proven the superior fighter. Therefore, I see the value of bite-force to be a minimal asset in a face-off confrontation between two different species.
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Post by tom on Jan 29, 2018 17:27:43 GMT -5
listverse.com/2012/11/05/top-10-animal-bites-that-will-completely-destroy-you/This website has the bite force weakest to strongest (Measured in PSI) in a little different order. Interesting that the Jaguar was the highest of the big cats. Also interesting was that of the Gorilla. Both Lion and Tiger were listed further down that the Brown Bear?? Again, while the article seems up and up, we don't know the source of this study. With the exception of the Great White Shark it appears getting accurate, hard bite force data can be very expensive not to mention difficult. I agree that bite force would not be a determining factor when it comes to who would win a face to face battle.
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Post by brobear on Jan 30, 2018 7:20:19 GMT -5
The bite-force of sharks are not as impressive as we might expect. But don't forget that a shark has a mouthful of steak knives. I have also read that a grizzly ( U. a. horribilis ) has a stronger bite than a coastal brown bear or a Kodiak. Casey Anderson also claims 1200 psi for the grizzly. Not too surprising for the gorilla considering what he eats. Example: a gorilla prefers the stalk of a banana tree to the soft fruit. Surprising to me is the spotted hyena. I believe she can do better considering she is a bone-crusher. 10 - Lion - 600 psi. 9 - Tiger - 1050 psi. 8 - Spotted Hyena - 1100 psi. 7 - Grizzly - 1200 psi. 6 - Gorilla - 1300 psi. 5 - Hippo - 1821 psi. 4 - Jaguar - 2000 psi. 3 - Alligator - 2125 psi. 2 - Saltwater Crocodile - 3700 psi. 1 - Nile Crocodile - 5000 psi.
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Post by tom on Jan 30, 2018 11:20:12 GMT -5
The biggest question I have regarding these bite force measurements is how they were acquired or how accurate the data is. The possible exception may be the Great White or maybe the crocodiles. But for the others, how are they determining whether the animal gave its maximum bite or not? Seems to me this is more speculation than an exact science. How do you know if Mr. Gorilla gave it his all. Answer.... You don't.
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Post by brobear on Mar 31, 2018 21:11:38 GMT -5
Epiphany... I am having second thoughts on the entire intraspecific relationship teachings about Pleistocene predators of N. America. Besides the grizzly, there were four large bear species living in N. America, the black bear, the vegetarian Florida cave bear, and the giant short-faced bear. Now, I believe that the giant could chase any other predator from a carcass. But, I do not consider the giant to be a predator. He simply wasn't built for chasing down large prey animals. Besides, there were a multitude of large predators doing the hunting and killing which provided meat for the giant. Therefore, it was a simple matter for the grizzly to simply stay out of the giant's space. No, not the giant bear. It was the wolves, both grey wolf and dire wolf which made life drastically hard for the she-bear with cubs. And, it were the big cats that hunted and killed sub-adult grizzlies. Giant jaguar, scimitar cat, atrox lion, and prides of saber-toothed cats. It probably was not the giant bear that preyed upon the grizzly, but rather the large full-time predators. Just as with the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear in the R.F.E., the big cats of Pleistocene N. America probably preyed upon juvenile grizzlies and perhaps on occasion an adult she-bear. Even the occasional mature grizzly boar might possibly have fallen victim to a pride of saber-tooths from time to time.
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Post by brobear on Apr 1, 2018 4:34:07 GMT -5
Concerning the grizzly and the Pleistocene predators: Epiphany... I am having second thoughts on the entire intraspecific relationship teachings about Pleistocene predators of N. America. Besides the grizzly, there were three large bear species living in N. America, the black bear, the vegetarian Florida cave bear, and the giant short-faced bear. Now, I believe that the giant could chase any other predator from a carcass, including a grizzly. But, I do not consider the giant to be a predator. He simply wasn't built for chasing down large prey animals. Besides, there were a multitude of large predators doing the hunting and killing which provided meat for the giant. Therefore, it was a simple matter for the grizzly to simply stay out of the giant's space. No, not the giant bear. It was the wolves, both grey wolf and dire wolf which made life drastically hard for the she-bear with cubs. And, it were the big cats that hunted and killed sub-adult grizzlies. Giant jaguar, scimitar cat, atrox lion, and prides of saber-toothed cats. It probably was not the giant bear that preyed upon the grizzly, but rather the large full-time predators. Just as with the Amur tiger and the Ussuri brown bear in the R.F.E., the big cats of Pleistocene N. America probably preyed upon juvenile grizzlies and perhaps on occasion an adult she-bear. Even the occasional mature grizzly boar might possibly have fallen victim to a pride of saber-tooths from time to time as well as to prides of atrox lions if they too were group hunters.
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Post by brobear on Apr 13, 2018 20:19:13 GMT -5
I just feel like this statement is long overdue: Who is truly "King of the Carnivora" ? Running for the title are: The Lion, The Tiger, The Grizzly, and The Polar Bear. 1 - The Lion ( King of Beasts ) is the world's largest terrestrial pack-hunter. Lions are the apex predators of Africa. 2 - The Tiger is the apex predator of Asia. He is the world's largest and strongest of the big cats. 3 - The Grizzly is probably the strongest animal of his size. An omnivore who fears no predator. 4 - The polar bear is the biggest terrestrial predator on earth; the biggest and most carnivorous of the bears. So of the top four Carnivorans, which stands supreme over the others? The polar bear is ( on average ) hundreds of pounds heavier than the average grizzly. But, he only rules within his icy kingdom. One-on-one, a grizzly can outfight any big cat. But, as a predator he cannot compete with the hunting and killing abilities of the big cat. In the R.F.E. where both tiger and grizzly live, more bears are killed by tigers than tigers by bears. So, is the tiger the "King of the Carnivora"? No. Only slightly smaller, lions are group hunters. Anywhere from six to twelve lions can easily chase off one tiger. No bear is going to challenge a pride of lions over a carcass. Therefore the "King of Beasts" is also the "King of the Carnivora."
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Post by brobear on Mar 8, 2019 6:01:07 GMT -5
ON post #1, I added number #12. *Note: several posts up, a bite force list. My opinion re-vamped: I believe that at total-length parity, the alligator, salt-water croc, and Nile croc all stand equal. Size Matters. I will also say that with even the experts ( it seems ) being unsure; I would say ( for now ) lion, tiger, and grizzly equal in bite-force.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 0:43:13 GMT -5
My bold statement: A polar bear has the best slicing bite among all bears. This bear can defeat all land felines including smilodons and cave lions as well as american lions. A polar bear can also kill ungulates and bovids more easily compared to killing a walrus, beluga, and narwhale.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 23, 2019 20:19:42 GMT -5
Im not too sure about american lions being defeated by polar bears. American lions can get big.
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Post by brobear on Mar 24, 2019 0:52:39 GMT -5
Im not too sure about american lions being defeated by polar bears. American lions can get big. A large polar bear is double the weight of a large atrox.
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 24, 2019 10:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 0:02:18 GMT -5
Im not too sure about american lions being defeated by polar bears. American lions can get big. A large polar bear is double the weight of a large atrox. Even at parity, I will vote for the polar bear over the american lion.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 25, 2019 5:07:28 GMT -5
A large polar bear is double the weight of a large atrox. Even at parity, I will vote for the polar bear over the american lion. You have my vote also Bjorn.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 9:31:04 GMT -5
Spectacled bears are better climbers than jaguars.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 27, 2019 11:21:37 GMT -5
Spectacled bears are better climbers than jaguars. Do you think that Spectacled bears are better climbers than black bears?
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Post by BruteStrength on Mar 27, 2019 16:41:24 GMT -5
Im still not to sure who would win. We have to remember that big cats are no joke and can be very dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 22:32:54 GMT -5
Spectacled bears are better climbers than jaguars. Do you think that Spectacled bears are better climbers than black bears?I think they are about the same as but there are accounts that say the spectacled bears are the best climbers of all bears and even make their nest in the trees but I guess its debatable. Bears walking on tight ropes etc shows their intelligence as well as their agility now that even makes more sense in the account which says 'the asiatic black bear which killed a tiger has the agility of a monkey'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 22:39:24 GMT -5
Im still not to sure who would win. We have to remember that big cats are no joke and can be very dangerous. True big cats are powerful and dangerous but we have to remember that bears have the bulkier and more powerful forearms but again not everyboy agrees on that same thing and its fine by me . Another bold statement of mine: an average to above average male polar bear can beat two african lions, and a large 1400 to 1540 pounds male can defeat three african lions and an exceptionally large 170 to 2200 pound male polar can beat four or five african lions and even two smilodons/american lions/cave lions.
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Post by King Kodiak on Mar 28, 2019 3:31:07 GMT -5
Bjorn: dont exaggerate my man common, Ha ha ha. No polar bear can defeat 3 or 4 or 5 lions you nuts? Thats too much. 2 its possible, but i doubt it too. Those are just impossible odds even for prehistoric bears. Displace yes, but a fight until death, no.
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