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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 21, 2021 8:02:00 GMT -5
Well you already said it in your reply #18 brobear, that is the average muscle mass percentage in the forelimbs and hind limbs. Gorilla 5 specimens, orangutan 3 specimens. The ranges are at the bottom. "Muscle mass percentage"... Percentage in each limb? Does this mean that one of those long skinny arms of an orangutan is stronger than the arm of a gorilla? An orangutan could beat a gorilla arm-wrestling? Percentage in each limb yes. And this is relative to their size, so if a gorilla was the size of an orangutan or vice versa, the orangutan would have stronger arms. But the gorilla is much larger, so the gorilla has stronger arms overall and would win arm wrestling. Always take into consideration that most of these studies are relative to their size.
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Post by brobear on Apr 26, 2021 5:16:09 GMT -5
seaworld.org/animals/all-about/gorilla/characteristics/#:~:text=Gorillas%20have%20dark%20skin%20and%20black%20to%20brown-grey,optical%20illusion%20of%20increased%20length%20and%20larger%20size. Gorillas have a distinctive shape in that their stomachs are larger than their chests. Their stomach size is attributed to their enlarged intestines, which digest the bulky fibrous vegetation they consume. Gorillas have larger muscles in their arms than in their legs (the opposite is true for humans). This is primarily due to the fact that they use their increased arm strength for bending and gathering foliage and for defense. Although capable of walking upright on two feet they most often walk as a quadruped (on four limbs). Gorillas' arms are much longer than their legs and their arm span is about 30 cm (1 ft.) longer than that of an adult human male. The elongated arms indicate a tree-dwelling ancestry even though gorillas are now primarily terrestrial (ground-dwelling). An adult gorilla's upper body strength is six times more powerful than that of an adult human — enabling them to lift, break, and squeeze heavy objects.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2021 10:49:16 GMT -5
Strongman Hafthor Björnsson ( Men Built Like Bears - reply #138/#139 ) can deadlift an astounding 470 kilograms, or 1,036 pounds. How much would you suppose that the average man can deadlift?
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2021 11:06:32 GMT -5
Average untrained man being say 5'9" and 170 lbs I would say at least his own bodyweight. Obviously you'll have some individuals who will be able to do much more and some maybe even less.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2021 12:42:35 GMT -5
Average untrained man being say 5'9" and 170 lbs I would say at least his own bodyweight. Obviously you'll have some individuals who will be able to do much more and some maybe even less. I'm probably one of those less So, we can say that Thor ( the weight-lifter ) is roughly 5 times the strength of the average man. According to the estimation from Sea World ( Reply #41 ) a silverback gorilla is 6 times the strength of a man. That would make a gorilla just slightly stronger than the world champion weight-lifter.
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2021 12:49:28 GMT -5
Just an off the cuff thought. A Gorilla slightly stronger but would a Silverback Gorilla be capable of deadlifting more than Thor and if so how much more? Remember the Deadlift does require some skill albeit most of it is strength there is some technique to achieve maximum results. Believe it or not the legs play a huge part in the deadlift along with the back and shoulders, Legs probably the biggest part. It's the strongest muscle on the human body.
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2021 12:56:30 GMT -5
Just an off the cuff thought. A Gorilla slightly stronger but would a Silverback Gorilla be capable of deadlifting more than Thor and if so how much more? Remember the Deadlift does require some skill albeit most of it is strength there is some technique to it to achieve maximum results. Probably what he is physically capable of and what he would do are two different things. How do you get an animal to "give it his all"? Only when in dire need would he exert himself to that point - such as in a fight. But as for being capable; Strongman Hafthor Björnsson can deadlift 1,036 pounds; so perhaps ( my guess ) a big silverback might deadlift 1,200 pounds - maybe more
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2021 12:58:23 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see the two side by side. Maybe a trainer could teach the Gorilla the finer points of the deadlift. A new thought for a TV show, "Man vs Ape"
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Post by brobear on Apr 27, 2021 13:12:13 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see the two side by side. Maybe a trainer could teach the Gorilla the finer points of the deadlift. A new thought for a TV show, "Man vs Ape" This brings up another point about gorillas. In circus acts and other animal acts for entertainment, you will see lions, tigers, bears, chimps, and orangutans. But, never a gorilla. I remember when Steve Irwin visited the biggest gorilla facility ( most captive gorillas ) in the world; in London. The owner, and caregiver to the gorillas was a retired gambler. He said that no one had ever won over the trust of the great apes as quickly as Steve. When Steve got into the cage with the big silverback, he knew that he would not be able to leave the cage until the silverback decided so. The silverback is always in charge. He is not going to jump through hoops.
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2021 14:20:37 GMT -5
Steve Irwin had a way with animals. Gone way before his time. The mighty Lion and Tiger can be trained but silverback Gorilla is his own boss.....
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 27, 2021 14:48:54 GMT -5
Just an off the cuff thought. A Gorilla slightly stronger but would a Silverback Gorilla be capable of deadlifting more than Thor and if so how much more? Remember the Deadlift does require some skill albeit most of it is strength there is some technique to achieve maximum results. Believe it or not the legs play a huge part in the deadlift along with the back and shoulders, Legs probably the biggest part. It's the strongest muscle on the human body. Gorillas have more muscle mass in their hind limbs than in their forelimbs. Oraguntans its the other way around:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/33719/thread
Some sites (not scientific), state that gorillas can deadlift 1800 lbs. What i will be willing to bet is that a gorilla would be able to deadlift alot more than Thor.
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2021 16:32:23 GMT -5
I'm sure you could find many websites with claims as to the Gorillas strength. How much a Gorilla could actually deadlift is purely speculation IMO. For instance, on this website it is claimed that a Gorilla has the strength equal to 20 humans combined. It also claims a Gorilla can bench press 4,000lbs while some of the worlds strongest men usually top out between 800 or so. There are all sorts of claims on this website. I'm curious as to how they came up with those numbers though. Let the fact be stated though the Gorilla is very powerful, how powerful, who knows... www.wildgorillasafaris.com/facts-about-gorilla-facts/how-strong-is-a-gorilla/
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Post by brobear on Apr 29, 2021 8:40:07 GMT -5
Here is the only conformed report of a gorilla ever killing a human ( found by hihi )
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Post by brobear on May 3, 2021 5:32:55 GMT -5
Consider this; we have all read or listened to news reports of one man killing another in a no-weapons fight, hand-to-hand, in a fit of rage. It happens. However, I have never heard of one man ripping the head off of another; nor a limb. I'm not saddened by this fact, but a gorilla is, without a doubt, stronger than most, if not all, big strong men.
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Post by King Kodiak on May 21, 2021 16:13:11 GMT -5
A muscle-fiber Comparison in Apes Based on Brain Size and Locomotor Style
Abstract
The present study was designed to better understand the relationship between muscle mass and brain mass in primates and to illustrate how muscle fiber composition could be used to address evolutionary questions in relation to energetics. Skeletal muscle is composed of two main fiber types; type I (slow-twitch), which are fatigue-resistant but slow to contract, and type II (fast-twitch) which are more quickly fatigued and fast to contract. Type I fibers use aerobic while type II fibers are primarily anaerobic. When active, skeletal muscle is in direct competition with the brain for glucose and oxygen and is an expensive tissue to maintain. Data analyzed from a previous study demonstrated a negative correlation between brain size and type I fibers in lemurs (N=11) suggesting that as brain mass increases, type I fiber composition decreases. Alternatively, muscle fiber composition has been linked to differences in locomotion. This raises the question; which of these explanatory variables plays the greatest role in muscle fiber composition? Based on documented patterns, we hypothesized that; (1) emphasized hominoid primates would have an increase in type I and (2) primates engaging in quick short-lived movements will have more type II fibers while those engaging in long lived postural movements will have more type I fibers. Accordingly, we calculated the type I and type II fiber frequencies from two upper-limb and hind-limb muscles (deltoid, pectoralis major, gastrocnemius and soleus muscles) from four hominoid genera (Gorilla, Pongo, Pan troglodytes and Hylobates lars, N=7) using immunohistochemistry. Formalin-fixed paraffin embedded muscle samples were sectioned (10um) and immunostained using Type I and Type II Myosin heavy-chain antibodies (abcam). Histological analysis of muscle morphology was visualized and quantified using light microscopy and Image J. Hylobates, a small-bodied, small-brained primate, accounted for 36% average type I fiber composition between all four muscles, compared with Gorilla, a large-bodied, larger-brained primate which had a mean type I fiber composition of 31%, (Pongo 46%, P. troglodytes 39%). In comparing type I to type II fibers in the gastrocnemius muscle, Gorilla (14%, 85%) P. troglodytes (28%, 70%) and Hylobates (19%, 79%) displayed a higher type II fiber composition, while Pongo (62%, 38%) had a higher type I composition. These calculated mean differences between taxa and the variability between individual muscle groups suggests locomotor style may have a greater effect on skeletal muscle fiber-type than brain size.
faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.2019.33.1_supplement.612.16
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Post by brobear on May 22, 2021 5:32:54 GMT -5
In laymen's terms, how do the great apes compare to each other according to the findings of the study described in Reply #54? ( thick-skulled brobear ).
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Post by King Kodiak on May 22, 2021 6:55:51 GMT -5
In laymen's terms, how do the great apes compare to each other according to the findings of the study described in Reply #54? ( thick-skulled brobear ). Gorillas have 31% type 1 muscle fiber (slow-twitch), this is used more for running. this would leave them with 69% type 2 muscle fiber (fast-twitch) which is used more for powerlifting and strength:
blog.nasm.org/fitness/fast-twitch-vs-slow-twitch
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Post by brobear on May 24, 2021 15:32:56 GMT -5
Muscle mass of healthy gorillas and orangutans. Overall body composition. apeanatomyevolution.com/wp-conte...imized.pdfZihlman has dissected multiple orangutan and gorilla bodies of both sexes in the past although many were quite unhealthy individuals.
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Post by brobear on May 24, 2021 15:33:59 GMT -5
Compared to human bodies (many are old or unhealthy)
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Post by brobear on May 24, 2021 15:35:09 GMT -5
These were measurements for the bodies of bonobos; From this data, it appears that total p4p muscle mass of healthy humans and gorillas is overall quite similar, with gorillas maybe edging us out. On the other end it seems orangutans are a bit less muscular than either. However bonobos/chimpanzees are the leanest most muscular ape at the same size, with half or more of their bodyweight consisting of muscle usually.
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