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Post by brobear on Nov 13, 2020 4:35:02 GMT -5
Kodiak bear's foot:
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Post by King Kodiak on Feb 5, 2021 14:57:07 GMT -5
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Post by brobear on Feb 12, 2021 3:21:36 GMT -5
It's the same old story. "If it hasn't been filmed, captured on video, then it is a myth". For many years it was told, grizzlies never hunt and kill bison. Then, in recent years, we began to find evidence that they do ( uncommonly ). But no, we still remain with not a single video of a brown bear killing a healthy bull bison. But then, we also have no video of a tiger killing a healthy bull gaur or water buffalo either. There are hundreds - literally hundreds - of reports from American pioneers, hunters, biologists, and other people who have ventured into brown bear country who have witnessed a brown bear killing with a paw-strike. Add to this the long list of cattle and other livestock discovered with busted skulls and broken necks. I am one of the few, even among bear fans, who will argue that YES the bear's devastating paw strike is real, but not his most common method of killing. The reason for this is the fact that bears learn how to fight from early cubhood. They are wrestlers. Also, the thick skull and extremely powerful neck and shoulders of a brown bear act as an armor which cushions the mighty blow. Therefore, if a paw-strike will neither kill nor do serious damage to a fellow bear, why attempt to kill another adversary in such a method?
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 8, 2021 16:09:36 GMT -5
From 0:15,
Gary Moses, Ranger, Glacier National Park
"The swat from a grizzly bear is been known to break the neck of a bison."
From 41:20,
"To catch prey it develops a large hump behind its shoulder. It is been known to break the spine or neck of a bison with a single blow."
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 8, 2021 16:42:08 GMT -5
I have to be reasonable with the accounts that favor bears also. No carnivore can break the neck of a bison with a single blow, its just not possible, look at a bisons neck, its the largest of all bovids in my opinion. Maybe a baby bison but that's about it.
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Post by brobear on Apr 8, 2021 16:53:39 GMT -5
I have to be reasonable with the accounts that favor bears also. No carnivore can break the neck of a bison with a single blow, its just not possible, look at a bisons neck, its the largest of all bovids in my opinion. Maybe a baby bison but that's about it. However, he can put a deep dent in the hood of a sturdy truck. His paws are constructed to withstand the force of impact. His skull, neck, and shoulders are designed to withstand the paw-strike of a fellow bear. And, those same neck and shoulder muscles can deliver a paw-strike far more devastating than that of any big cat. I doubt that a big brown bear has ever broken the neck of an adult bison, but for him to break the neck of a domestic cow with a paw-strike would not surprise me. Who can clearly know his limits? But, a bear is a wrestler and a biter. He thinks of his jaws as being his killing tools.
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Post by Montezuma on Apr 8, 2021 16:56:33 GMT -5
I have to be reasonable with the accounts that favor bears also. No carnivore can break the neck of a bison with a single blow, its just not possible, look at a bisons neck, its the largest of all bovids in my opinion. Maybe a baby bison but that's about it. I agree, i knew it thats impossible but i wanted to show these. Bear is poowerful to crush bones but not as powerful to break bisons neck. Images of bison's neck show how strong they are.
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Post by King Kodiak on Apr 8, 2021 17:00:12 GMT -5
Yeah guys, if a bear can break a bison's neck with a single blow, this means that it would be easy for bears to predate on adult bisons. We know that's not the case.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 1, 2021 4:11:31 GMT -5
True. We know bears are powerful but we need to acknowledge their limit.
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Post by brobear on May 1, 2021 4:40:19 GMT -5
Yeah guys, if a bear can break a bison's neck with a single blow, this means that it would be easy for bears to predate on adult bisons. We know that's not the case.
It has been established, "if you hear something said often enough, you tend to believe it". And so, "a grizzly can break the neck of a bull bison with a single blow of a forepaw" has probably been told since the early 19th century. However, it has also been established, through science, that a brown bear does indeed possess a devastating paw-strike. Powerful enough to dent the hood of a heavy-duty truck. All bears are strong and can deliver a powerful paw-strike. ( IMO ) the paw-strike of a black bear is greater than that of a similar-sized lion or tiger. But, this awesome bear strength is, in the brown bear, reinforced by those muscles of his shoulder hump. A brown bear has massive neck, shoulders, and arms giving him Herculean upper-body strength. The forepaws of a brown bear ( possibly all true bears ) is specially adapted to withstand the impact of delivering a powerful paw-strike. His heavy skull and his massive neck and shoulders shield him for the paw-strike of another bear, which would fell a lesser beast. *It is my theory that, because of the many long hours spent as cubs wrestling, and them knowing that a paw-strike never wins a fight with a fellow cub, they do not think of a paw-strike as a means of finishing a fight. The same holds true when boar grizzly battles boar grizzly. There are usually a few paw-strikes involved, which will only stun momentarily at best, his bruin opponent. And so, the bear considers his teeth and jaws as being his main weapons to disable an adversary. *I have no doubts that some domestic cattle and other large ungulates have been killed by the paw-strike of a big boar brown bear. But, even from the biggest bear, it will take more than a hefty slap to kill a bull bison.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 1, 2021 22:54:18 GMT -5
The bison is arguably the most powerful ungulate. I doubt any bear can kill one with one swipe.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 14, 2021 6:43:26 GMT -5
Even at parity, I believe that bears have bigger paws than big cats. Being a plantigrade means even a relatively small male polar bear will be stronger than a smilodon of similar weight.
A similar weighted male polar bear kill still hit harder than a smilodon populator.
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Post by brobear on May 14, 2021 7:04:35 GMT -5
Even at parity, I believe that bears have bigger paws than big cats. Being a plantigrade means even a relatively small male polar bear will be stronger than a smilodon of similar weight. A similar weighted male polar bear kill still hit harder than a smilodon populator. *This is why I consider a 'head-and-body-length' parity a much better way to compare animals. At weight-parity, the polar bear's fat is a handicap. Remove the fat, then check-out weight-parity - a big difference. At equal head-and-body length, which is completely fair in all regards, will reveal which Carnivoran species is the more robust. However... an even better match-up is with each animal at his own natural typical size.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 14, 2021 7:10:04 GMT -5
/\ While the smilodon seems to have more robust limbs, the male polar bear has stronger shoulder and bigger paws for harder paws.
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Post by brobear on May 14, 2021 7:26:39 GMT -5
/\ While the smilodon seems to have more robust limbs, the male polar bear has stronger shoulder and bigger paws for harder paws. More robust limbs than a polar bear? I doubt it. Here is an average polar bear with a large Smilodon populator:
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on May 14, 2021 7:33:48 GMT -5
/\ While the smilodon seems to have more robust limbs, the male polar bear has stronger shoulder and bigger paws for harder paws. More robust limbs than a polar bear? I doubt it. That info was posted by Verdugo but he admitted the sample is not accurate. Overall, the male polar bear has more robust and stronger forelimbs than the smilodon populator (maybe even pound to pound using the square cube law).
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Post by King Kodiak on May 14, 2021 15:58:25 GMT -5
More robust limbs than a polar bear? I doubt it. That info was posted by Verdugo but he admitted the sample is not accurate. Overall, the male polar bear has more robust and stronger forelimbs than the smilodon populator (maybe even pound to pound using the square cube law). The Smilodon populator probably has more robust limbs at same weight, but not overall.
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Post by brobear on May 15, 2021 5:36:07 GMT -5
Bear Claws:
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Post by brobear on Jul 21, 2021 12:10:25 GMT -5
According to GrizzlyClaws Offline ( Canine Expert ) over at wildfact.com/forum/ -Quote: "The Brown bears also got the broadest canine teeth in proportion," ( of all the living bear species.
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Post by brobear on Aug 9, 2021 3:18:32 GMT -5
www.twojebieszczady.net/aktualnosci/niedzwiedzie2.php Female Brown bear killed a young adult female bison The five-year-old European bison became the food of the Bieszczady bears. Three bears foraging for many hours were filmed by a forester. "The forester Jan Duell found the remains of a bison in the Roztoki forestry a week ago, when he and his son went for a walk in the forest. Since 1995, he has been monitoring the life of bison and bears for the needs of various scientific institutions. He photographs their tracks, collects faecal samples, on the basis of which the animal nutrition is determined." "When he found a dead, half-eaten bison, and the traces indicated that bears were feeding there, he installed a camera with a photocell on one of the nearby trees. Thanks to this, it was possible to photograph three bears feasting on the remains of a 500 kg bison. - It was quite a feast. It started around 4.20 and she finished between 18 and 19 - she says. As the recording shows, all the bears shared their food fairly, none was more privileged." "After analyzing the photos and tracks, the foresters believe that the bison has become food for a female bear and two one-year old bear cubs. After the autopsy performed at the beginning of the week and the inspection of the killed bison, there is no doubt that the animal was killed by a bear. - Żubrzyca was stunned with a powerful paw blow. When we examined it, it turned out that one vertebra was missing in the spine - that was how strong the blow was. She was a five-year-old female in fairly good shape, says Duell. A large amount of droppings and numerous lairs near the carcass indicate that the bears have been feeding there for many days. The foresters also found traces of the European bison being dragged over a distance of several meters, which prove the enormous strength of predators. In addition to bears, ravens, buzzards, hawks and small forest birds also feed on carrion.
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