Size

[Montezuma]

I cannot understand that either himalyan brown bear or Syrian brown bear is the smallest subspecies of the brown bear.

[brobear]

May 21, 2021 16:48:33 GMT -5 Montezuma said:

I cannot understand that either himalyan brown bear or Syrian brown bear is the smallest subspecies of the brown bear.

Both of these bears live in very barren locations. The poorer the food resources, the smaller the bears.

[Montezuma]

I think that the largest dwelling land mammal carivores according to tgeir size list is,

1. Polar bear
2. Brown bear
3. Tiger
4. Lion
5. American black bear
6. Asiatic black bear
7. Spectacled bear
8. Sloth bear
9. Jaguar
10.Gaint panda
11.Sun bear
12. Cougar
13. Leopard
14. Gray wolf
15. Cheetah

[Deleted]

May 29, 2021 17:54:21 GMT -5 Montezuma said:

I think that the largest dwelling land mammal carivores according to tgeir size list is,

1. Polar bear
2. Brown bear
3. Tiger
4. Lion
5. American black bear
6. Asiatic black bear
7. Spectacled bear
8. Sloth bear
9. Jaguar
10.Gaint panda
11.Sun bear
12. Cougar
13. Leopard
14. Gray wolf
15. Cheetah

And hyenas

[Montezuma]

/\ I will put hyenas after leopards.

[OldGreenGrolar]

Actually, the spotted hyena is on average heavier than most leopards. Cheetahs are longer than leopards but slimmer and more gracile.

[Montezuma]

I do not think that Mexican grizzly bears are small as it is often showed. Ramadan the Mexican grizzly bear who fought parnell the lion was about 700 pounds and on wikipedia i read that this bear can weigh 310 kg. Thats too much.

A syrian brown bear can weigh maximumly 250kg, that means that an adult male should weigh over atleast 160 kg.

[King Kodiak]

Jun 12, 2021 15:13:55 GMT -5 Montezuma said:

I do not think that Mexican grizzly bears are small as it is often showed. Ramadan the Mexican grizzly bear who fought parnell the lion was about 700 pounds and on wikipedia i read that this bear can weigh 310 kg. Thats too much.

A syrian brown bear can weigh maximumly 250kg, that means that an adult male should weigh over atleast 160 kg.

Ramadam was a California grizzly (Ursus arctos californicus), that's why he was large. The Mexican grizzly was (Ursus arctos horribilis, formerly Ursus arctos nelsoni). 

[brobear]

The Steppe bear, which were Pleistocene brown bears of Europe, were even bigger than the coastal salmon eaters. While the cave bears were vegetarians, the brown bears ( being highly adaptable ) were most carnivorous. In this way, the brown bears and the cave bears were not in competition over food. The Steppe bear shows us that a brown bear on a high-protein meat diet can be a huge bear. Thus the bigger grizzlies of the Great Plains of the Old West... the bison hunters.

The Pleistocene grizzlies of North America were in the size-range of modern grizzlies. Because the giant short-faced bears were highly carnivorous, these brown bears are believed to have been highly vegetarian.

[theundertaker45]

@shadow

I'll tag you here as reply #246 in this thread has some interesting information on Eurasian brown bears from Romania; average weight of 268kg and maximum of 440kg. The biggest of them was 135cm at the shoulders, that's immense.

[brobear]

Aug 27, 2021 7:02:13 GMT -5 theundertaker45 said:

Links to the original pictures:

Ussuri Brown Bear - www.flickr.com/photos/139979959@N05/46425453572/in/photolist-2dJszUG-2kHdZv1-2hczLX3-28ZBMFx-2ajXFBJ-2gMnXDX-2m7SVgV-GfaLPj-2gcTBzn-2gcTqnt-2gcTcEN-2isWqSu-2dffhFN-29hg4YG-BFYK33-wpDXg7-GUkctL-2jVDrnv-2dPmpJd-2cubnST-293fXgJ-2auMGK5-2dcK5Hj-294cpou-2iXkdPX-2gTmUEv-2fLFpq1-qwWGnu-LDCjT2-2dBxefF-2ecQNVs-Rxm4ar-2m4YLy6-2m4ZJY7-2dUPWyD-NmwmeR-H863z2-8WMF45-2aq19fn-2m55avx-2m53Err-2m4YHz5-2m4V8S7-2m53GU2-2m4ZMFX-2m4ZMEe-2m558cu-2m4ZJVm-8WJCG2-2bWvTRp

Eurasian Brown Bear - www.istockphoto.com/de/search/2/image?phrase=eurasian%20brown%20bear&family=creative

Brown Bears of Europe and Russia.
The brown bears of the Eurasian taiga are bigger than the inland grizzlies living today. However, before the migration of Euro-American's into the West in the early 1800s, there were grizzlies living on the prairie and in the Sierra Nevada Mountains equally as big if not bigger.

[brobear]

Aug 27, 2021 9:39:20 GMT -5 theundertaker45 said:

@shadow

I'll tag you here as reply #246 in this thread has some interesting information on Eurasian brown bears from Romania; average weight of 268kg and maximum of 440kg. The biggest of them was 135cm at the shoulders, that's immense.

135 cm = 4 feet 5 inches.
268 kg = 591 pounds.
440 kg = 970 pounds. 
 
*These brown bears are typically larger than inland grizzlies. 

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 9:39:20 GMT -5 theundertaker45 said:

@shadow

I'll tag you here as reply #246 in this thread has some interesting information on Eurasian brown bears from Romania; average weight of 268kg and maximum of 440kg. The biggest of them was 135cm at the shoulders, that's immense.

They are in quite the same level as our bears overall, I think. What happens here is, that when bear hunting season starts, older and bigger bears have learned to cross the border and go to Russia and then stay there the time of Finnish bear hunting season. This is something what hunters here have noticed, so bigger bears are rare to get shot. Usually killed bears are a bit younger ones and rarely over 200 kg when talking about males. This is interesting, because not only hunters, also people who don´t hunt but are experienced... "nature people" tell that bears are smart enough to know when they are hunted and they even understand, that they leave tracks when they move. So I´m not at all surprised of this information, that they have learned, that if they go to certain places, hunters don´t follow anymore

I can´t say for sure that our bears would be as big as biggest from Romania, but they have that trophy hunting thing there, so they for sure select big bears for weighings. Knowing that captive Juuso bear was once 483 kg, I´m sure that our wild bears have possibility to be around 450 kg in good conditions. Juuso isn´t that big after all what comes to his height on hind legs for instance. There are bigger ones.

[theundertaker45]

@shadow

What would you say on the topic "shoulder height"? In the Romanian sample the maximum shoulder height was 135cm and the heaviest bear 440kg. For a 600kg+ Alaskan giant 150cm would surely be possible, right?

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 11:42:21 GMT -5 theundertaker45 said:

@shadow

What would you say on the topic "shoulder height"? In the Romanian sample the maximum shoulder height was 135cm and the heaviest bear 440kg. For a 600kg+ Alaskan giant 150cm would surely be possible, right?

I think, that 150 cm is very possible as it´s often estimated to be. Biggest Alaskan bears are clearly bigger after all as weight alone tells. Photos and videos don´t make justice to them usually, when nothing to compare with. But as Taquka and Felix in Orsa zoo have shown, that size difference is more than clear when in same enclosure.

Not the best photo, but here Felix on right and Taquka left.

[Deleted]

Here a short video with Eurasian male brown bear Felix and Kodiak bear Taquka.


www.facebook.com/967477203286709/videos/835041903893938

[theundertaker45]

@shadow

As we were talking about shoulder heights some time ago, I decided to give something a try. There is a study from Blanchard on the dimensions of Yellowstone grizzlies in the late 20th century; the sample of adult males (5y+) averaged 193kg and the shoulder height measured in a proper way was 95cm. The bears used for the sample were predominantly captured in summer, so not really in fat condition. Coincidentally there is a study on Alaskan Peninsula brown bears by Glenn with a fairly big sample size just like the Yellowstone sample; the average weight for the adult males (5.5y+) was ~357kg in this case and all of the bears were also captured during August.

Using the proportions of a Yellowstone grizzly as a template (95cm tall and 193kg) I am able to determine the theoretical shoulder height of those Alaskan brown bears assuming that both groups share a similar bulk. 

193/0.95² = 213.850415512
357/x² = 213.850415512
x = ~1.29

So with this rough estimation I'd get a shoulder height of  around 129cm for an average male Alaskan Peninsula brown bear; your thoughts? For me it would seem reasonable as we were talking about a maximum figure of 150cm.

[nocapakabl]

Weights of male and female brown bears, from alaska unit three alongside morphometric measurements, age classes as follows: 6.6 year old+ for males, 7.7 year old+ for females:

[OldGreenGrolar]

What is the average size and weight of all brown bears subspecies combine?

[brobear]

From Reply #377 - Weights of male and female brown bears, from alaska unit three alongside morphometric measurements, age classes as follows: 6.6 year old+ for males, 7.7 year old+ for females:

*This is why we have a hard time finding the true average size of full-grown brown bears. No male brown bear below the age of 9 should be included in the averaging. I believe that 7 years is alright for females. 
 
*Table 3 male bears average out to: 256.5kg or 565.49 pounds.