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Post by King Kodiak on Dec 6, 2018 5:14:28 GMT -5
Very nice. Another important detail is that the grizzly required 8 shots to be killed. Remember that we also have an account from Lewis and Clark expedition that shot a grizzly 10 times and still swam half a mile before dying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 1:21:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is a myth or real but I recall reading once about a grizzly bear that was known for killing bear hunters, and when it finally was killed, they found over 100 bullets found in its body. There was a large reward for this bear due to how difficult it was to kill.
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Post by brobear on Jun 15, 2020 1:41:29 GMT -5
Some of the first books ( other than basic school books ) that I read about the grizzly, after getting involved in the animal face-off forums, were about the historical grizzly. Beginning with the Lewis and Clark expedition, the grizzly began gaining a reputation for being a huge, fierce beast that was almost unstoppable. It was said that bullets are useless against a grizzly unless the shooter is a crack-shot and can hit a charging grizzly either in the heart or in the brain. Even then it might take more than one shot. Few men wanted to face a grizzly alone with his single-shot, black powder, muzzle-loader. It was finally determined that the long rifles which were practical east of the Mississippi - those used by such frontiersmen as Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett - were simply not powerful enough to be reliable against a grizzly. These were soon replaced by "buffalo guns" of a higher caliber. As for the bears reported large size and fierceness; there is truth in this as well. From found skulls, we know that the size of the grizzlies that followed the "buffalo" herds were very big grizzlies. While not the monsters as proclaimed by some, being highly carnivorous and not yet "tamed" by modern rifles, they were likely a bit more aggressive than today's grizzly. *See topics: Historical Grizzly and Man Meets Grizzly in the "Brown Bears" section of Extant Bears. ( the particular story you are referring to is in there somewhere ).
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 15, 2020 7:30:45 GMT -5
I never heard of that grizzly that had over 100 bullets in its body, we will have to research for it, but we do have this account here:
"A lion or tiger falls dead instantly when a bullet hits his heart or a vital part of his brain” “a grizzly may live longer while still fighting” a member of the Lewis and Clark party shot a grizzly 10 times, 4 through his lungs and 2 through his heart, and still lived 20 minutes and swam half a mile.
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Post by brobear on Jun 15, 2020 7:41:58 GMT -5
I'm sure that there were some old lion and tiger hunters back in the black powder rifle days; yet only the grizzly gained this reputation. This was discussed in the old AVA once. The reason for the grizzly ( brown bear ) to be so hard to kill with those weapons; #1- the rifle ball was soft lead. #2- the bear has a very thick body beginning with long hair, tough skin, a layer of fat, and a very thick layer of muscle tissue. That is a lot for the round soft-lead ball to pass through; especially considering the low caliber weapons used. Also note: a bear has a thick skull.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 15, 2020 8:19:40 GMT -5
The brown bears thick skull as well as their thick fur and fat plus muscles makes them relatively hard to kill for their weight.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 15, 2020 14:53:03 GMT -5
THIS VIDEO JUST CONFIRMS THE ACCOUNTS ABOVE:
FEMALE GRIZZLY BEAR TAKES SHOTGUN BLAST AT CLOSE RANGE AND KEEPS CHARGING:
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 15, 2020 15:13:28 GMT -5
Ok i found the story that Malic was talking about, it was a Colorado grizzly bear called "Old Mose", he weighted more than 1100 lbs. He took more than 100 bullets although that was probably overkill, a few bullets should had been enough.
After the state “officially” eradicated Ursus horribilis in the 1950s, Colorado’s last known grizzly bear was killed in the San Juans in 1979—yet sightings persist. Whether they’re out there in the Juans or not, it’s hard to forget Old Mose, so named for his perpetual moseying about the mountains surrounding the San Luis Valley. Said to have killed three people and more than 800 head of cattle, Old Mose was a truly giant bear, even by grizzly standards, weighing in at more than 1,100 pounds. Bearing a distinctive pawprint thanks to two missing toes on one of his rear feet, Mose’s home base was Black Mountain, between Salida and Cañon City, where he was finally vanquished on April 30, 1904, after taking more than 100 bullets. Adopted as a de facto mascot for the Adams State Grizzlies, the college commemorated Old Mose’s thirty-year-run on Colorado’s most dreaded list in 2006 by dedicating a twelve-foot bronze statue in the aptly named Grizzly Courtyard.
www.ramblecolorado.com/rip/old-mose-1870-1904
Tom had already posted an article on this bear on the myths and legends thread:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/12949/thread
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Post by tom on Jun 16, 2020 16:54:41 GMT -5
I never heard of that grizzly that had over 100 bullets in its body, we will have to research for it, but we do have this account here:
"A lion or tiger falls dead instantly when a bullet hits his heart or a vital part of his brain” “a grizzly may live longer while still fighting” a member of the Lewis and Clark party shot a grizzly 10 times, 4 through his lungs and 2 through his heart, and still lived 20 minutes and swam half a mile.
We'll.... assuming this article is credible and some sort of necropsy was performed than that would seem quite rare for 4 slugs to pass thru the lungs and 2 thru the heart and not drop the animal soon after it was shot. To expound on brobears assumption that lead balls were used. Lead solid balls would simply pass right thru if it was reasonably close. On the contrary, today's modern big game hunting ammunition is is designed with a lead core and a copper jacket to mushroom to many times its original size, not to mention much higher velocities. It may even fragment upon impact creating a much larger wound channel. This creates much more shock on impact and shatters whatever it hits. I would certainly believe that multiple hits not on organs (lungs,heart etc..) that a bear could travel some distance before succumbing to loss of blood.
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Post by tom on Jun 16, 2020 16:59:06 GMT -5
Ok i found the story that Malic was talking about, it was a Colorado grizzly bear called "Old Mose", he weighted more than 1100 lbs. He took more than 100 bullets although that was probably overkill, a few bullets should had been enough.
After the state “officially” eradicated Ursus horribilis in the 1950s, Colorado’s last known grizzly bear was killed in the San Juans in 1979—yet sightings persist. Whether they’re out there in the Juans or not, it’s hard to forget Old Mose, so named for his perpetual moseying about the mountains surrounding the San Luis Valley. Said to have killed three people and more than 800 head of cattle, Old Mose was a truly giant bear, even by grizzly standards, weighing in at more than 1,100 pounds. Bearing a distinctive pawprint thanks to two missing toes on one of his rear feet, Mose’s home base was Black Mountain, between Salida and Cañon City, where he was finally vanquished on April 30, 1904, after taking more than 100 bullets. Adopted as a de facto mascot for the Adams State Grizzlies, the college commemorated Old Mose’s thirty-year-run on Colorado’s most dreaded list in 2006 by dedicating a twelve-foot bronze statue in the aptly named Grizzly Courtyard.
www.ramblecolorado.com/rip/old-mose-1870-1904
Tom had already posted an article on this bear on the myths and legends thread:
domainofthebears.proboards.com/post/12949/thread
Sorry, I question the authenticity of this claim of 100 slugs put into one bear. Possibly one of those stories where the bullet count kept growing over the years. Liken it to big fish stories where the fish mysteriously got bigger and bigger the more times the story is told.
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2020 17:03:19 GMT -5
Quote: To expound on brobears assumption that lead balls were used. Lead solid balls would simply pass right thru. Today's modern ammunition is is designed with a copper jacket to mushroom to many times its original size, not to mention much higher velocities. *Actually, the soft round lead balls, at a lower velocity, would also mushroom. But they would not go in very deep. The impact would be enormous; but a bear's body is "designed" to absorb impact. This is why a bear can take a paw-strike from another bear seemingly unnoticed. A bullet from a modern rifle, will slice right through a bear; making a bigger hole where it exits.
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Post by tom on Jun 16, 2020 17:11:06 GMT -5
It depends on when this happened. Late 1800's the modern type cartridges were in use. Modern hunting ammo today is highly engineered and designed to mushroom upon impact to many times it's original size. The solid lead core drives the mushroomed copper jacket thru. This slows the slugs venture thru the animals body creating a big hole. Unless it hits bone, it normally will stay intact or partially so whether it exits or not. Dangerous game ammo on the other hand usually are solid lead and rely on deep impact to penetrate thick hide and muscle on large dangerous game
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 16, 2020 17:11:50 GMT -5
I agree. The thing is different articles about this bear state different things. The article you posted state he was killed with 4 rifle shots. But all i did was search for this story that Malik6 was talking about at the top.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 16, 2020 17:21:08 GMT -5
Well the bear was shot multiple times, thats for sure, and it swam half a mile. But like you said, maybe he was not hit on those vital organs, maybe they were wrong about that.
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Post by brobear on Jun 16, 2020 17:22:15 GMT -5
What really impresses me the most about some of those "outlaw" grizzlies is the fact that some were hunted for decades by farmers, shepherds, ranchers, and professional bounty hunters before being killed. Old Mose 1870-1904... was over 34 years old when killed. Those old bears were smart. Why so determined to kill livestock? They came down from a long line of predatory grizzlies. Almost every outlaw bear had a name that began with "Old", perhaps because being so smart and elusive, maybe they were considered to be old and wise.
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Post by tom on Jun 16, 2020 17:27:00 GMT -5
What really impresses me the most about some of those "outlaw" grizzlies is the fact that some were hunted for decades by farmers, shepherds, ranchers, and professional bounty hunters before being killed. Old Mose 1870-1904... was over 34 years old when killed. Those old bears were smart. Why so determined to kill livestock? They came down from a long line of predatory grizzlies. Almost every outlaw bear had a name that began with "Old", perhaps because being so smart and elusive, maybe they were considered to be old and wise. I have to believe they just acquire a taste for beef???
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Post by brobear on Jun 20, 2020 3:12:26 GMT -5
Historical Grizzly, in the Brown Bear section contains many tales. Yes, after the bison were killed off and the range cattle rounded-up, the grizzlies began killing sheep, goats, cattle, hogs, horses, and donkeys. I would suppose if someone had an ostrich farm ( those big feathers being popular for lady's hats ) the bears would be killing them.
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Post by OldGreenGrolar on Jun 20, 2020 3:25:51 GMT -5
Myth: Bears Don’t Feel Pain like People Do Untrue. People, bears, dogs, and other mammals have similar nervous systems to avoid pain and protect their bodies from injury (Fox 2007). Bears have unusually keen senses of smell, taste, and hearing, and they react to very light touch on their fur. No scientific evidence suggests that bears feel less pain than other mammals, including humans. bear.org/myth-bears-dont-feel-pain-like-people-do/This source is opposite of the Great Bear of Almanac.
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Post by brobear on Jun 20, 2020 3:44:38 GMT -5
Myth: Bears Don’t Feel Pain like People Do Untrue. People, bears, dogs, and other mammals have similar nervous systems to avoid pain and protect their bodies from injury (Fox 2007). Bears have unusually keen senses of smell, taste, and hearing, and they react to very light touch on their fur. No scientific evidence suggests that bears feel less pain than other mammals, including humans. bear.org/myth-bears-dont-feel-pain-like-people-do/This source is opposite of the Great Bear of Almanac. I never for a moment believed that bears do not feel pain nor have I ever believed that a bear feels pain less than other animals; including us. When necessary, as with some people, a bear can ignore pain at such times as when in a fight or stealing honey. But he feels every scratch and every sting.
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Post by King Kodiak on Jun 20, 2020 6:02:13 GMT -5
Who said bears dont feel pain? One thing is that bears can "endure" more pain than humans and some other animals, which is true, and another thing is bears feeling pain, which of course they do.
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